ATTN Lee Chiang Po

[Ray Pina]

Your comments are insulting to people who have dedicated themselves to study certain aspects of unarmed combat and take the risk to their health and ego to test their skills publicly against well-trained foes.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you. Boxing is a sport. Kick boxing is a sport. Fencing is a sport. Jiu-Jitsu is a sport.

A boxer is great with his fists and shows it. A kick boxer is great with his hands and feet and shows it. A fencer is great with the sword and shows it. A jiu-jitsu player is fantastic and flowing, throwing and locking .... and shows it.

All these "sport" types are competing openly on an international level. Why is it that we have no evidence, NONE, of any Kung Fu master applying his skill as openly? Why haven't any of these great masters compared with their modern boxer, MMA counterparts? I was just a CMA student for a decade, was impressed enough with what I learned to go compare. It's the only honest thing to do if you are serious as any master would be, right?

So instead wasting time insulting people who are pushing their craft, why don't you be the kung fu guy to dig us up some evidence. Go talk to the top internal masters, see if you can get them to fight. Find out what rules, if any, they would want to compare under. Then get back to me.

[Pork Chop]

my muay thai coach is Laotian, lived in Thailand, and then moved here.
has a ton of stories of fighting bareknuckle for 15baht (less than 50 cents) , which was enough to feed his family at the time.
there was no insurance, lawsuits, or fear of going to jail at the time.

this idea that muay thai will just cease to function when you take it out of the ring is funny. This is a video of a competition held in japan, basically mma stand up - any technique allowed short of gouging, biting, or groin shots - headbutting, elbows, and standing subs are fine. Here's a second clip.

boxing has a similar history. combined with wrestling (as it was , it's d@mn near all you need in the street. night guardsmen used boxing & wrestling to throw down with street fighters for centuries.

the same goes savate as well - born out of french street fighting.

vale tudo gave anybody in the world the opportunity to do their "non sport stuff" to the gracies (and other bjj practitioners) for 40 or 50 years before the first UFC.

I think there's a lot more empirical evidence to support any of these "sports" being effective in the street than just about any "traditional" style.

[Lucas]

i thot savate was more developed by sailors

i think it was the savate guy on that show fight quest, saying thats why its so kick heavy, from the sailors olding onto ropes and stuff while the boat sways and they brawl on deck.

i dunno tho, just felt like being a *****

[dirtyrat]

I honestly think that true kung fu is rare to the point of extinction, so we'll probably never see so-called masters step in the ring.

The Chinese can be notoriouly secretive even among their own. I also think they have a practical side to them. Kung fu is not a natural way of fighting as compared to mma. So naturally it takes longer to build in the reflexes. Then there's the stories of special training like iron palm/body and so on and on.

Practically speaking, why train for years when its easier to buy a gun? Especially (if I'm right; doesn't make sense to me to make unarmed training your primary focus as there is a difference in wanting to learn how to brawl vs defending yourself) if kung back in the days was primarily a weapons based system.

If the above is true, then what was passed down was probably passed down for recreational and health purposes (though among many Chinese the practice of kung fu at one time was considered barbaric and for low-lives/thugs). If so, that could explain why it has failed to evolve with the changing times.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Your comments are insulting to people who have dedicated themselves to study certain aspects of unarmed combat and take the risk to their health and ego to test their skills publicly against well-trained foes.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you. Boxing is a sport. Kick boxing is a sport. Fencing is a sport. Jiu-Jitsu is a sport.

A boxer is great with his fists and shows it. A kick boxer is great with his hands and feet and shows it. A fencer is great with the sword and shows it. A jiu-jitsu player is fantastic and flowing, throwing and locking .... and shows it.

All these "sport" types are competing openly on an international level. Why is it that we have no evidence, NONE, of any Kung Fu master applying his skill as openly? Why haven't any of these great masters compared with their modern boxer, MMA counterparts? I was just a CMA student for a decade, was impressed enough with what I learned to go compare. It's the only honest thing to do if you are serious as any master would be, right?

So instead wasting time insulting people who are pushing their craft, why don't you be the kung fu guy to dig us up some evidence. Go talk to the top internal masters, see if you can get them to fight. Find out what rules, if any, they would want to compare under. Then get back to me.

Ray, I think that most here, by now, have figured out that LCP is full of it or dilusional.
Either way I don't think anyone pays that much attention to him.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

The truth is in the eye of the beholder. It amazes me as well that in this age of technology that allows viewers the ability to witness every kind of unarmed combat imaginable, that there are still people so gullible to believe that their crappy arm flailing, form fairy arts are efficient. Most "REAL" Kung Fu stylists choose to strip their style of the bull sh*t such as stupid stances and forms/kata and work on basics, footwork, sparring, clinching, grappling and other live drills that make someone competent to use that art. The other dip sh*ts like LCP harp on and on about the greatness of their master and how a TRUE Kung Fu master would own any sport fighter. I like to compare it to the nerd in junior high who gets beat up by bullies and dreams of getting back at them some day. But instead of hitting the gym and trying to do something about his pathetic physical state, he simply talks about how one day he is going to get back at them. Terds like LCP are either delusional LARPers who could not hang in combat sports or know the sh*t they spout is a lie but continue to do so because they cannot admit their own shortcomings and failures. Either way, they are not worth the time or effort.

[goju]

its funny hearing people bash on tma not working when muay thai is a traditional martial art and kick boxing is a mix of karate and mt

not to mention bjjj came from judo


but yeah thats stuff dont work lol

"we have no evidence, NONE, of any Kung Fu master applying his skill"
never heard of cung le?
(shakes head)

[Ray Pina]

its funny hearing people bash on tma not working

I'm bashing on CMA not working

never heard of cung le?
(shakes head)

Yes. Do you attribute his victories to Wing Chun or kickboxing/San Da? Also good to note he now trains MMA.

[Pork Chop]

its funny hearing people bash on tma not working when muay thai is a traditional martial art and kick boxing is a mix of karate and mt
not to mention bjjj came from judo
but yeah thats stuff dont work lol

"we have no evidence, NONE, of any Kung Fu master applying his skill"
never heard of cung le?
(shakes head)

sweet geebus

the "sport" people never go out of their way to bash traditional stuff without it being instigated first with the stupid "well sport stuff won't work in the street" bs...

Yeah, boxing, muay thai, and wrestling are each older than about 90% of kung fu styles.

Wanna know one of the oldest "traditional" kung fu styles?
It's the one that also has a "sport" competition aspect similar to Judo - aka Shuai Chiao.

"sport" and "play" are how you work on your fighting the other 99% of your life when you're not actively trying to rip some dude's throat out; so excuse me if i bash those guys who prefer to sit around and whack off waiting for that throat ripping moment instead of spending the rest of the time doing "sport" or "play" at a level of contact high enough to do some damage.

[Lucas]

anybody who competes in mma needs to train mma.

its well known that cma is NOT a specialized ground fighting art. thats half of a mma match. cma, by itself, is not prepared for mma ring fighting. it just isnt. thats why you dont see kungfu guys in mma. however you may see mma guys who have done some kungfu and crossed over into the mma world. hell, several of them post here.

so just like MT or TKD, CMA has to cross train to fight in the venue of MMA.

no kungfu guys fight mma. thats true. neither do bjj guys, karate guys, muay thai guys, etc. mma guys fight mma.

its like saying bjj guys dont fight sanshou. well ya. they arent trained for that sport. they can cross train and go fight mma, or stay in their format of competative fighting. grappling matches. OR crosstrain, and go fight sanshou.

cma shows its sportive combat applications in sanshou most readily.

its not style vs style anymore its all mixed up, everyone fighting mma is crosstraining, and everyone is recieving the benefits of that crosstraining.

but do kungfu guys fight in mma? nope, only mma guys fight in mma.

let me ask this though. how many strictly mma guys (meaning started MA with MMA not with a strong foundation in any other art) will go on to take golden gloves or top BJJ trophy in a tourney. probably none.

its really a balancing of time and energy in conjunction with your long term goals.

it all comes down to goals

[Lucas]

i never really got the bashing thing though. either direction.

i just let the fairy dancers continue to dance. let them live in their fantasy till it crumbles around them.

[goju]

Thats the point though the guys who bash on tma are just as stupid as the tma stylist that bash on mma or other sport fighters.

Instead of talking **** about how tma doesnt work how about YOU PERSONALLY go around and find well respected masters and ask them to spar instead of sitting on your arses. Your being no different than the tma keyboard warriors who sit online talking about how they could drop any sport fighter with their whirling koala fist

Not to mention i dont think alot of posters on martial art forums realize how insignificant our posts are here.

Martial art masters have better things to do with their time than sit online and read what some anonymous **** (who likely lies about their knowledge and skill of their own style they practice) has to say about them or their style

[Pork Chop]

Instead of talking **** about how tma doesnt work how about YOU PERSONALLY go around and find well respected masters and ask them to spar instead of sitting on your arses.

What makes you think none of us have already done that?
What makes you think none of us were at one time students of "well respected masters"?
or "masters" ourselves?

I think MerryPrankster is the only guy that posts here that hasn't had any experience being the student at a kung fu school and he's probably the most respectful.
The rest of us have all trained under some pretty respected names in the country.
Ray's posted videos of himself throwing down with traditional guys in his area.
I've "touched hands" with quite a few myself.
lkfmdc has more kung fu cred than 99% of the self-proclaimed "kung fu purists" on this board.

The ones that knew what they were doing didn't sit there talking trash about "sport" this and "street" that; they knew what they could do coz they pressure tested their stuff and didn't have the gall to sit around saying something's worthless coz there are rules and an onsite doctor.

real recognizes real

[Water Dragon]

lkfmdc has more kung fu cred than 99% of the self-proclaimed "kung fu purists" on this board.

He did. lkfmdc lost most of his cred after the incident with Sifu Abel, the transvestite midget, and the kiddie pool full of green jello.

[goju]

What makes you think none of us have already done that?
What makes you think none of us were at one time students of "well respected masters"?
or "masters" ourselves?

I think MerryPrankster is the only guy that posts here that hasn't had any experience being the student at a kung fu school and he's probably the most respectful.
The rest of us have all trained under some pretty respected names in the country.
Ray's posted videos of himself throwing down with traditional guys in his area.
I've "touched hands" with quite a few myself.
lkfmdc has more kung fu cred than 99% of the self-proclaimed "kung fu purists" on this board.

The ones that knew what they were doing didn't sit there talking trash about "sport" this and "street" that; they knew what they could do coz they pressure tested their stuff and didn't have the gall to sit around saying something's worthless coz there are rules and an onsite doctor.

real recognizes real

im talking about an actual known master not just some "guy" i want names like wing lam or gary lam or tat mau wong or shinyu gushi or morio higgaonna