martial ARTIST vs MARTIAL artist

[dirtyrat]

Exactly my point. For those who say they practice MA strictly for martial reasons, I submit that many systems have "holes" in their game when it comes to modern self-defense needs.

I believe arts like WC have their value that goes beyond a strictly martial sense. Its enjoyable to say the least and as a tool for self-development, its priceless IMHO.

Oh yeah, and the skills developed are cool too.

[uki]

Most martial arts teaches martial skills that are irrelevant and obsolete for today's needs. No one needs to learn sword or staff/spear skills.

Even certain unarmed fighting skills taught today that were relevant in the past but are no longer applicable today. Some kung fu teachers said that most kung fu styles were designed to fight against other kung fu systems. So it had to be modified a bit to be useful against say, muay thai.

If people are really serious about the martial side, then the focus should be place on developing skills that fits modern needs for self-defense. Like learning how to use a gun. Knife and club skills are still relevant. Grappling is always useful. Most classes in many schools don't even touch the subject.

If you're drawn to a martial art that does not address today self-defense needs, than why study it? martial vs art.

the only flaw with this mindset is taking for granted the world we live in... einstein was once asked if ww3 would be fought with atomic weapons, his reply was, "i cannot tell you what ww3 will be fought with, but ww4 will be fought with sticks and stones." sword and staff training is useful for developing technique with instruments of similar shapes... brooms, shovels, bats, and the like can all readily be utilized in a self defense situation... i believe it is relevant to practice with all weapons in order to be a more well rounded martial artist, because the world we live in could turn upside down at any moment... ignorance is not bliss - just because society is the way it is today, does not mean it will still be the same tomorrow.

[dirtyrat]

the only flaw with this mindset is taking for granted the world we live in... einstein was once asked if ww3 would be fought with atomic weapons, his reply was, "i cannot tell you what ww3 will be fought with, but ww4 will be fought with sticks and stones." sword and staff training is useful for developing technique with instruments of similar shapes... brooms, shovels, bats, and the like can all readily be utilized in a self defense situation... i believe it is relevant to practice with all weapons in order to be a more well rounded martial artist, because the world we live in could turn upside down at any moment... ignorance is not bliss - just because society is the way it is today, does not mean it will still be the same tomorrow.

ooooo-kay....

[bennyvt]

i got those sayings from the wall on our school. I think ill take barry's translations over others, no offence.

[bennyvt]

wsl point was fighting is not dependant on what people think. Except in matches with judges the person who wins is the guy that stopped the other guy. If you look good to others around you doesn't matter. Art is decided on whether people think its art. Like the piece of toast or the child that does massive squiggles that her parents and others class as art. Wsl didn't case about what wu sit or kung fu translated into he meant that vt is a system of combat. Ask a boxes if he is an artist, or an sas and he would laugh. When i used to go out and get into fights my mates said i should do something like copoiera (sp?) because although i was starting to who they thought it didnt look good. I said i would rather look bad and who then look good and get smashed.

[bawang]

i find it very funny in china every one tells me wingchun focuses on real fighting and i come to western world and people always talk about finding something deep or artistic or spiritual in this fighting style made by guangdong boat robbers
lol

[CFT]

Didn't WSL call VT "Wing Chun/Ving Tsun Kuen Hok"? "Hok" as in "the study of"?

[bennyvt]

yes he did. Thats why sifu au yeung (cliff) calls his school a martial institute. To instill wsl's idea of it being a science. Like wsl's video ' the science of in-fighting'. I have a copy of wsl calligraphy saying 'wong shun leung ving tsun kuen hok'.

[Lindley]

Jin, first of all, welcome to the forum. I have watched a couple of your videos and congratulate you on your very good instructional ability and presentation, your ability to language your ideas.

People often don't realize that all relationships have a common base. When you are squared off against an opponent, you and that person have a "relationship". I feel that martial arts has afforded me the ability to understand relationships better, whether as a fighter, a husband, a father, or a friend. To be successful in a relationship, one must understand the true meaning of commitment and trust - not far from a relationsihp with a friend, your spouse, your boss. To commit to my opponent is to offer myself 100% to complete whatever it is we are doing together. To trust my arsenal, my hands and feet, so that I do not need to think. This may sound quite abstract, but the top martial arts people, top sport athletes, experience this.

The problem with martial arts training is it has to have a starting point. What brings someone to your mo kwoon? Most of the time, the latest action star movie. It is the rare student who is looking just to "improve thei lives". Many experience this through music, through religion etc. The Mo Kwoon is also a social gathering, a belonging. Those who say lineage does not matter likely do not experience this. Because all they want to know is "how to fight".

"Kung Fu is learned, not taught". It is nothing but a collection of experiences based on some guidelines passed down from a "teacher". kung Fu is an expression of ones self. I will differ with those who find the Kung Fu techniques "outdated" or obsolete. I will differ with those who speak of weapons that have nothing to do with modern fighting. It is likely coming from those who have not experienced truly advanced levels in the kung fu or been taught in the correct manner.

My Sigung, Moy Yat, was known for his mastery of art - painting and stone. My Sifu recently retired from being a corrections officer at a maximum security prison, well known for using his ving tsun skill in real prison riots. He is truly "battle tested". I have students who have done well walking off the street in sparring tournaments with little preparation. Hence, when someone comes to learn from me my first question is "why do you want to learn kung fu?" It is my job, as the Sifu, to help them reach their goals through the martial art, not to make the martial art fit into them.

Good luck with your kung fu. If you are ever in the Philadelphia area, you are most welcome to visit our schools.

[Ng Mui]

Art is open to interpretation.

A painting that someone might praise, looks like an incoherent mess to someone else. So there is debate.

Martial artists are not open to interpretation.

Someone attempts to block a punch and fails. He lays unconscious on the ground.

Is there debate?......or excuse?

[David]

martial arts is a load of crap. Wsl used to say vt is a martial science. Art is subjective, it depends on peoples prespective i like stuff but you don't. Fighting is not subjective, if both people are equal the better style wins. Not the one i like better.

I don't know if you can escape the art, because every student expresses it differently. The day a teacher turns out clones, is the day that school goes down - some script kiddie will publish the 3 step guide to defeating them.

[iwingchun]

i think dirtyrat is right. Well done for your opinion.

[bennyvt]

carl lewis and johnson (the guy that got banned for steriods) both ran, they both had different ways of expressing that skill or style. Does this make it art or just different ways to get to the line first.

[AdrianK]

Art is open to interpretation.

A painting that someone might praise, looks like an incoherent mess to someone else. So there is debate.

Martial artists are not open to interpretation.

Someone attempts to block a punch and fails. He lays unconscious on the ground.

Is there debate?......or excuse?

Ridiculous. The interpretation isn't on the success or failure of the attempt, but the most efficient method for the practictioner.

I can show you 30 different ways to block and/or deflect a punch. Some will be more suited to a mental state or body type than others.

If you weren't so closed minded you'd take a look at boxing and see the MASSIVE amount of interpretations of something as simple as punching and blocking.

Such a statement shows a SEVERE LACK of understanding of the varying types of human bodies and personalities which would create an extreme difference in effectiveness of a given technique, idea or strategy.


****, it pains me to even have to read your nonsense.

[AdrianK]

i find it very funny in china every one tells me wingchun focuses on real fighting and i come to western world and people always talk about finding something deep or artistic or spiritual in this fighting style made by guangdong boat robbers
lol

The difference is in education.
We have far more exposure in the Western world to Art, Science and Philosophy.

The problem is we have many people who have a superficial understanding of these things and talk out of their ass about them.

But to say they don't apply to martial arts? You don't need them, to be an effective fighter. Just like you don't need to understand Physics, Geometry, Anatomy or Psychology to be an effective fighter.

But all of the above is still a very real part of martial arts.

Whether you want to further your understanding in those subjects is up to you.

To say they don't apply is sheer idiocy.