Shaolin Pao Quan - what a mess

[Sal Canzonieri]

here is the tiebiquan performed by shi xingsen
(basically dapaoquan with a different ending):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss39SG30fFk

here is the same set performed at shi xingsen's school by his student (thats him in the background).
the ending sequence to this one is much longer. it does everything in the tiebiquan above, and then an additional section. the tiebiquan video above only has a few extra moves not in the dapaoquan set usually:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wjNzlxhqQ

funny thing is his student is solid. does it much better than him. the student's version is also more interesting. and i'm not sure where this extra sequence of moves comes from.

Tiebi Quan just ends a few movements earlier, about 4-6, in comparison to the Tagou books version.
The Shaolin Encyc doesn't have Da Pao Quan, it does show an almost pretty much it version called Xiao Pao Quan Yi Lu. but shorter.

That second video, I like it by the way, is the whole set, as in the Tagou books and elsewhere, only with an extra sweeping kick at the very end.
So, I would say that this is the definitive version of Dapao Quan / Tiebi Quan.

[LFJ]

nice. wonder why its called tiebiquan though.

how do the others end without the sweep and kick?

[Sal Canzonieri]

nice. wonder why its called tiebiquan though.

how do the others end without the sweep and kick?

With standing on one leg, one arm up in the air and other on leg.

[richard sloan]

sick thread!

thanks gentleman, this is awesome reading, I'm envious, my mandarin sucks.

in some of these vids it looks like some of the moves share similarities to a baby leopard fist we have...and a da pao chuan seminar is coming down the pipe so it's very timely.

much respect.

[LFJ]

Please Watch

Here is as Video by Shi Yong Wen;

http://www.56.com/u39/v_MTM3OTA2ODQ.html

It contains some clips of him performing WuShanLins pao quan. It also contains a lot of information on the many styles of Pao quan (if you can understand chinese).

shi yongwen in this clip says "shaolin wushu has a three section one road 'dapaoquan', and a single section 'xiaopaoquan'". (at about the 2 minute mark)

seems his naming for the sets is the same as shi deyang's. the short one is "xiao" and the long one is "da".

who all calls the long one "da" and the short one "xiao"? just tagou?

[Sal Canzonieri]

shi yongwen in this clip says "shaolin wushu has a three section one road 'dapaoquan', and a single section 'xiaopaoquan'". (at about the 2 minute mark)

seems his naming for the sets is the same as shi deyang's. the short one is "xiao" and the long one is "da".

who all calls the long one "da" and the short one "xiao"? just tagou?

I thought I had seen an interview with Liu Baohsan where he said that long ago the names were switched to fool people trying to copy their stuff? I dimly remember something about this. Not totally sure though.

[RenDaHai]

The names are different to everyone who practices them, don't pay attention to it.. It should just be Pao quan.

Watched the Liuzhenhai VCDs of 1+2+3 pao quan today.

his yi lu is the same as the one in Yanzhuangs book precisely.

his Erlo is the standard Pao quan (with all the hammers) 1st and 2nd section.

His san lo is the illusive third section of pao quan. Same as tagous books. It is quite funny though. He stops his er lo a little earlier than most people do, and starts san lo with a few moves from the end of er lo at the begining. this confused me on first watch.

This shows that as far as he was concerned it was all one form, he just split it for the VCd. SO his 2+3 are one form.


Actually by the way Tagou refers to the Xiao Pao quan as the long one. Deyang does the opposite. It doesn't matter, there are may other poa quans as well.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Plus, there is the fact that Pao Quan was part of Hong Quan system.
They weren't a separate style as they are often done today.

By the end of the Ming era, after much of Shaolin was lost by the end of the Yuan Dynasty (Shaolin was in complete disrepair and suffered much destruction by invaders from north).

TZ Chang Quan, Hong Quan, Pao Quan, and staff forms were all one system (through Li Sou's introduction into Shaolin).

Luohan 18 Hands and Rou Quan was the earliest system, what was preserved from Song dynasty to Yuan Dynasty.

Luohan Quan (which contained some Five Animals) was a new system that was a combination of the other two Shaolin systems (through Jue Yuan's efforts).

Wu Quan (which was lost at Shaolin and went south to Fujian) was another system (through Bai Yufeng's efforts).

During the mid to late Qing many new systems and routines were developed from loads of outside influence and from recombining Shaolin routines to make new ones.

Anything from Pre-Ming times is very hard to find records of since Shaolin was wrecked at least 3-4 times in history.

Hence, the folk material is very important since it preserved a lot of routines.

[Eugene]

Bakc in this Pao Quan

Is there more information about the monk doing Wu Sanlin`s pao quan
who his teacher was, and where he is even ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivbC4eKqz7o

He also called Shi yongxin, he looks like 45/50 or so ...maybe older, a mysterius master with no background info.

The commentaror of the video also said, this form has a mysterius background.

He mentiones that the most famous practicionars of Pao Quan are : Wu Sanlin, Shi Degen,
is the first name he tells : Shi Dejun ? and the last Shi Xing Shu ? Its difficult to hear it correctly.

This is one of the videos I have watched the most and is very inspiring to me.

I watched it today again and noticed, that he holds his mouth real stiff and seems to bite on his teeth during his form, ( i just read today that its a good way to hold your qi in xin yi ba )

Greetings Eugene

[Eugene]

BTW,

Maybe he lives on that golfcourse

[David Jamieson]

Sal, a couple fo those videos are marked private and can't be viewed.

thanks.

[LFJ]

is the first name he tells : Shi Dejun ? and the last Shi Xing Shu ? Its difficult to hear it correctly.

shi zhenjun, 29th generation monk.

and shi xingshu, an elder monk of the 32nd generation, is this shi yongxin's master. he is also the well known shi yongzhi's master, along with his brother shi yongxiu who opened a school together nearby yongtai nunnery.

[Eugene]

Thx LFJ for making that clear,

Shi Xing Shu... I saw a picture of him somewhere.

Great information

[LFJ]

yes, pictures of him are rare. he was one of those who stuck around through the dark ages in the past half century.

this shi yongxin has a personal website in chinese, by the way. this is his intro: http://www.shaolinyongxin.com/intro/intro.php

[Eugene]

I was on the website, but I am just starting to learn Chinese lol, google translator made a mess of that website, I got some info, thx

I guess the best lineage of Pao Chui Quan is from Wu Sanlin right, is there a dharma name of Wu Sanlin ?

I know that from Xing comes Yong, and before Xing is De right ?

Do you practice this Pao Chui Quan LFJ from Wu Sanlins lineage ...

Peace