Paoquan is a common term, but by the looks of it, I don't think it has anything to do with Shaolin Paoquan. More in the Xinyi thread.
I don't think Shi De Gen or shorter term students would be a good reflection of the core style and were less likely to have been taught the core shenfa.
Shaolin Zhou Tong Pao Quan
Shàolín Zhōu Dòng Pào Quán
This form was almost lost and today is rarely seen.
According to tradition this form was passed down to the monks at Shaolin by Master Zhao Tong (the better known Ying Zhua Pao Quan form is also attributed to Zhou Tong).
Shaolin tradition says that Zhou Tong learned the martial arts and military skills passed down from three kingdoms period General Jiang Wei as a Child in the Tongguan area of Shaanxi After this he Journeyed to Shaolin where he studied under master Tan Zheng Fang. Later he became known by the name "Iron Arm" Zhou Tong and travelled around mastering a great number of esoteric martial skills which he passed down to his students. Among his students were many famous heroes including several of the outlaw heroes of Liang Shan (the Water Margin) such as "Leopard Head" Lin Chong, "Jade Unicorn" Lu Junyi, "Sickly Officer" Sun Li, and "Pilgrim"/"Tiger Fighting Hero" Wu Song.
However he is best known as the teacher of great General Yue Fei who was his last and best student to Whom he Taught Archery, Boxing, Stick Fighting, and military strategy among other things.
Besides being remembered at Shaolin he is also said to have passed on Chuo Jiao and Fanzi Quan to Yue Fei and several of the Liangshan Heroes. He is said to have Learned Chuo Jiao from it's creator, Taoist Deng Liang. Besides this he also is supposed to have passed on many forms of martial Qigong and to have taught Yue Fei a system of Qinna that he used as the basis for his Eagle Claw Methods
However Most of What Is traditionally told of him appears to Be from Ming and Qing dynasty popular novels.
According to Song Dynasty material he was Yue Fei's second teacher in the military arts from his first teacher he had learned military spear methods and from Zhou Tong he learned Archery and along with military strategy. Yue Fei was said to be Zhou Tong's favorite student to whom he gave two of his best bows. After his death Yue Fei mourned him greatly offering sacrifices of wine and meat twice a month at his grave and firing three arrows in his memory each time.
So Basically in the early material Zhou Tong is only described as a local hero from the Anyang area of Henan province(not Shaanxi) who was a teacher of Archery and military skills to Yue Fei. There is no mention of any Kungfu until Hundreds of Years later.
Shaolin Lao Pao Quan from a competition:
Shaolin Xiao Pao Quan: (Looks very similar to how Deyang does it I think)
Dejian doing Pao Quan:
Nothing on that Zhou Tong Pao Quan ?
@by the way.
I reread that thread for the third time in the last months I guess. Do I understand it correctly that the Xiao Pao Quan(Liu Zhenhais Pao Quan Er and San Lu) are basically from a sub system which was called Shaolin Ti Shou Pao Quan ?
And what about the Ying Zhao Pao Quan mentioned earlier by Sal ? I mentioned Liu Zhen Hais book saying that the Ying Zhao is the Yi Lu, followed by the VCD Yilu auf Liu Zhenhai and then Er and San(Xiao Pao Quan).
Very interesting but still a bit confusing.
Yes. Put together it makes one long set, usually broken into three roads, of which the third is rarely seen. As I remember, his Erlu VCD showed the first 2/3 or so, and the Sanlu finished. It has been a while since I've seen it though.Do I understand it correctly that the Xiao Pao Quan(Liu Zhenhais Pao Quan Er and San Lu) are basically from a sub system which was called Shaolin Ti Shou Pao Quan ?
"The VCD Yilu auf Liu Zhenhai"... Wie ich mich erinnere, war es das, was er Dapaoquan genannt hat, und was Shi Deyang Xiaopaoquan nennt, und nicht Yingzhao Paoquan. Nicht wahr?I mentioned Liu Zhen Hais book saying that the Ying Zhao is the Yi Lu, followed by the VCD Yilu auf Liu Zhenhai and then Er and San(Xiao Pao Quan).
In any case, that shorter set is a modern one, created in the 1900's by Shi Yongxiang, the monk who gave all his notes to Shi Deqian to write the Shaolin Encyclopedia, as a simplification of an older set.
I think the Zhou TOng looks familiar... I think I know the area it may be from, looks like nanyuan pai.... Also it has a similarity with YingZHua pao Quan in the way it uses GuiBUQiXing-Danbian, Unusual for a Shaolin form, but common in other styles.
Hey J, any more info on this Shi YongXiang? (Disciples, masters, etc.)
I was interested in the History TeaSerpenti researched with it. I mean I know that many arts are attributed to famous persons. But I think calling my art Zhou Tong Pao Quan is really a claim.
What the ? First time reading it I thought I might have confused English with German while writing, wouldnt have been impossible Google Translator ?"The VCD Yilu auf Liu Zhenhai"... Wie ich mich erinnere, war es das, was er Dapaoquan genannt hat, und was Shi Deyang Xiaopaoquan nennt, und nicht Yingzhao Paoquan. Nicht wahr?
Nein, ich suche eben das Zitat von Sal heraus:
Sorry maybe my post was not clear. I did spoke of Liu Zhenhais Xiao Pao Quan Yi Lu as shown in VCD. As far as I could figure out his Pao Quan Er and San are basically Xiao Pao Quan.In any case, that shorter set is a modern one, created in the 1900's by Shi Yongxiang, the monk who gave all his notes to Shi Deqian to write the Shaolin Encyclopedia, as a simplification of an older set.
Thanks and Best regards,
@Xian: Mein Deutsch ist immer noch sehr schlecht, weil ich letzte Woche gerade angefangen habe, Deutsch zu lernen!
I see now, because I didn't have the book. But it sounds like it looks like this:
According to the book:
Yilu = Yingzhao Paoquan
Erlu = Dapaoquan
Sanlu = Xiaopaoquan (in full)
According to the VCDs:
Yilu = Dapaoquan
Erlu = 1st 2/3 of Xiaopaoquan
Sanlu = final 1/3 of Xiaopaoquan
And Yingzhao Paoquan stands alone.
Of course, the book makes more sense, and shows more detail than the VCDs. The three sets in full should be separate lines like this. But not that they are "roads" of the same system.
Last edited by LFJ; 10-15-2012 at 04:40 AM.
The main thing I remember reading was that he was in Shaolin prior to the 1928 incident, and retained his information all of which in the 80's he passed onto Shi Deqian to compile in the Encyclopedia, and performed many of the sets as reference for the drawing and writing the steps.
In the intro to the short Paoquan set it said he created it as an introductory set for his students. At some point in the Encyc. it may have named some of them. Don't remember. Will have to look through it again.
Last edited by LFJ; 10-14-2012 at 10:26 PM.
Looks like he is using claws in some positions.
Last edited by SHemmati; 02-14-2013 at 07:44 PM.
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