Shaolin Tong Bi Quan

[Sal Canzonieri]

it is dizzying, ha ha, but I think you summed it up right SHemmati.

There are so many "Shaolins"

[Royal Dragon]

Is there an English Download link?

Or you could just download it.

I sent this book to RDH the other day. The Luohan Shiba Shou set in there is what RDH was talking about in the Luohan thread that is in his sect. He has learned it and said its a spectacularly bizarre set done slowly with full stops and lots of neat application ideas. He can tell you more.

The Yilu Tongbiquan is the same as Shi Yanzhuang's book. It is the Nanyuan Renshou Xiaotongbiquan, but the third section differs from Shi Deyang's, which matches the Shaolin Encyc. almost perfectly all the way through all three sections.

I'm not sure where the third section to this one came from, but the end is strange with just standing there and punching, hopping to the other side and punching again. Unless there's some hidden ideas in there, it just seems silly to me. Anyway, watch a full performance that matches these books done here: NY RS XTBQ

[LFJ]

Just open the page and click on the big green button. That should start a download. If not, on the new page that opens click the right button that says 下载 on the first PDF.

Anyway, this is the book where the Laohongquan and Yuanhouquan pages come from that you should have.

[Royal Dragon]

Just open the page and click on the big green button. That should start a download. If not, on the new page that opens click the right button that says 下载 on the first PDF.

Anyway, this is the book where the Laohongquan and Yuanhouquan pages come from that you should have.

Awesome!! Thanks!!
No English version?

There are some intentional errors in the sets in this. Sal was able to get the corrections and pass them on to me. I have since worked the Lao Hongquan set out. I have to say, there is some real depth here. I am thinking this may be the definitive example of Zhao Kuang Yin's heart. Especially since it was supposedly made from the techniques he chose to exchange to Shaolin for their teachings.

[LFJ]

Of this book? I highly doubt that!

[Royal Dragon]

Of this book? I highly doubt that!

Well, it never hurts to ask!

You know, since my Chinese sux and all. Lucky I can say "Tai Tzu Chang Chuan" right. all else is calligraphy soup with me.

[Royal Dragon]

Hmm, I am having serious trouble downloading this!

First attempt I got 64.8kb Second I only got 24.6kb

Both are corrupt and will not open in adobe. Open office opens them, but they are all jibberish and random code.

[EDIT] 617.0kb..won't open in Adobe, same Jibberish in open office....

[LFJ]

I'll email it to you...

[Royal Dragon]

THANKS! Got it!!

[SHemmati]

there have been some discussions related to Tong Bi quan in some other threads. some important conclusions i became aware of are (LFJ posted in Luohan Quan thread):

Don't mix up the courtyard styles. The Xiyuan and Nanyuan Tongbiquan aren't just different versions of the same system. They have different origins. The one likely to be related to General Han Tong's Tongbiquan is the Xiyuan system, which being older is a bit scattered and also has many different names.

Nanyuan Tongbiquan is a lot easier to follow, as it is not so old. This is between the mid 1500's to the final years of the Ming Dynasty in the mid 1600's. We can know this by looking at the contents of the material and when and where it was created and taught.

[Sal Canzonieri]

there have been some discussions related to Tong Bi quan in some other threads. some important conclusions i became aware of are (LFJ posted in Luohan Quan thread):

Yep, and I think that this reconstruction of Shaolin had to have happened after the massacre of the monks by warlord Li Jiyu there in 1641. Why else would they have needed to do so?

Which also, since Nanyuan Tongbi Quan is a forerunner to Shaolin Kanjia Quan, the reason that there was required a further update to create Kanjia was because now the enemy was the Manchurians (instead of the Mongols/Jurchen of the pre-Ming times) and THEIR martial arts were different and Shaolin had to adapt to it.
And also, but then the anti-Qing rebels were staying at Shaolin, it was for them that the Kanjia Quan were created.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Tong BI Quan means through the arms, which was a "bian", a whip, like action that is now seen in what is called Piqua. It comes from a military technique from sword fighting. It strikes down and then diagonally out.

Tong BEI Quan is through the back, it merges Nei gong / Qi gong energy that sprials through the body so that striking energy is moved from the ground, coiled like a spring in the legs and then transformed in the waist/hips up the spine and out the arms and hands.

I have seen Hollyfield punch like that, and obviously it is very effective, ha ha.

[Royal Dragon]

Tong BI Quan means through the arms, which was a "bian", a whip, like action that is now seen in what is called Piqua. It comes from a military technique from sword fighting. It strikes down and then diagonally out.

I don't really see this in any of the old Tonbi sets though. I see that there is an internal connection through the shoulders so the arms are in effect "Connected"

What you are talking about, I see more in the newer Tong Bei stuff mostly.

The old Tongi, to me, is just Hong Quan(Flooding Fist), with a different name.

[SHemmati]

Tong Bi, Through-the-Arms, is obvious in Tong Bi quan, arms mostly come out through each other.

Tong Bei, Through-the-Back, i've seen some Tong Bei styles their fighters lean backward, or turn to a side, and then their arms come out backward. somehow like drunken kung fu fighters, who lean backward and attack backward with their extended arms. i don't know any "Tong Bei" style, but have read it at few places that those styles are called "Tong Bei" because of that backward fighting strategy.

[LFJ]

Which also, since Nanyuan Tongbi Quan is a forerunner to Shaolin Kanjia Quan,

Yes! In the other roads of Luohan Shiba Shou, which appear all Nanyuan Xiaotongbi style, there is a lot of overlap of unique postures in the 13 Kanjiaquan sets, e.g. the opening and closing Xubu crane spreads wings posture in Kanjiaquan is there, the odd slap of the foot on the ground after the jump kick is also there too. And of course, Kanjiaquan has the spear hand- spear hand- xiexing- xubu guard sequence from Xiaotongbiquan. It's all clearly related material, not even mentioning the historical evidence that supports it.