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Thread: Qigong as Medicine

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    To all, I decide to post here because the Thread says " Qigong as Medicine". There are people dying ; There are people who needs help with their health.
    What I post is to share to those who like to know qigong and medicine a direction and a bottom line of what is going on.
    LOL, bullsh*t! you are so full of bullsh*t it is coming out of your ears - you are such a dolt, it is laughable! you cloak yourself in some sort of altruistic "I am just here to help" guise, but look at your first three posts on this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    No mind, no path, no IS!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Dead as a ROCK or Dry Wood. How can that be the way?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
    No path, no mind, only Is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Dead water cant have any dragon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    or.... one track mind??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    mind and thoughts got nothing wrong as soon as one is not unknowingly trap by them.
    I'm sorry - please explain what ANY of these statements, all clearly intended to correct what you believe to misguided perspectives of the posters in question, please explain what ANY of them have to do specifically with helping people with their health via the practice of qigong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    I careless for those who likes to be expert and likes to argue for nonsense or philosophical.
    unbelievable! that is EXACTLY what your initial three posts on this thread do! you present yourself as an "expert" who comes on to argue someone else's belief system (a.k.a. philosophy; and you can nit pick and split hairs and try to propose how system thinking is different from a philosophy all you want, but sorry to say, it's essentially the same thing)
    nope, sorry, no one here is buying it, because it's not about helping others, it's about Hendrik being right, being the expert, and demonstrating everyone else's lack of proper perspective - AND YET NEVER BEING ASKED TO DO SO - don't you get it?!? you think you are being so beneficent, but the reality is that no one has asked you to come here and "teach"; but you just can't seem to help yourself, LOL - you don't come here to discuss, you come to preach! and what's more you typically do so in such a cryptic not to mention grammatically obtuse manner that even when you have something of benefit to share, it gets lost in the process;
    you might want to take a moment and reflect on the way in which people like Krisnamurti, Chogyam Trungpa, Ticht Naht Han and my teacher Sat Hon manage to convey their message to thousands of people from disparate cultures, communicating the same message you are trying to convey, and yet do not engender the same sort of response that you consistently get from pretty much everyone on here; at what point are you going to take a step back and realize that when you consistently receive a certain type of response it might actually have something to do with you, not everyone else?
    regardless of what your intentions may be, you come across as a know-it-all who presumes to instruct and does so in a rather condescending way; and you still don't get it that no one is here to receive instruction or to give it, but to simply engage in discourse in an open-ended manner - meaning that we come with our particular perspectives, yet without any particular attachment to them, "testing" them out against other ones, having some fun in the process; you, OTOH, jump in every time essentially indicating how these perspectives we hold are incorrect; and often the only rationale you give is because you say so! which basically makes you not much fun to play with at all, really;

    you may want to consider finding an alternate venue in which to help others

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    This is the best evidence on your experience isnt it?

    hahaha, human.
    As your comments reflect your experience too then huh?

    Is this the manner in which you present your respect for all people?

    I thought you didn't come here to argue, but to bless all mankind with your beneficence?

    Once again instead of condescending to others, how about demonstrating your own "evidence of experience"?

    AND once again, instead of making an asinine statement that says nothing at all about what I have posted, please demonstrate where I am in error so that I may benefit from your "respectful" comments!

  3. #48
    Classical case of No mind, no path, no IS! Dead as a ROCK or Dry Wood by Wo Lun.




    One Bhikshu was reciting Dhyana Master Wo Lun verse:


    Wo Lun has the talent
    To stop the hundred thoughts:
    Facing situations his mind won’t move;
    Bodhi grows day by day.


    When the Master Hui Neng heard it he said, “This verse no understanding of the mind-ground, and to cultivate
    according to it will increase one’s bondage. Then spoke this verse:


    Hui Neng has no talent
    To stop the hundred thoughts.
    Facing situations his mind often moves;
    How can Bodhi grow? ---------------six patriach sutra
    Last edited by Hendrik; 11-01-2009 at 09:11 PM.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Classical case of No mind, no path, no IS! Dead as a ROCK or Dry Wood by Wo Lun.

    One Bhikshu was reciting Dhyana Master Wo Lun verse:

    Wo Lun has the talent
    To stop the hundred thoughts:
    Facing situations his mind won’t move;
    Bodhi grows day by day.

    When the Master Hui Neng heard it he said, “This verse no understanding of the mind-ground, and to cultivate
    according to it will increase one’s bondage. Then spoke this verse:

    Hui Neng has no talent
    To stop the hundred thoughts.
    Facing situations his mind often moves;
    How can Bodhi grow? ---------------six patriach sutra
    You are clueless when it comes to real swimming even though you might read lots and lots of books.

    Why settle for less and trap yourself in the books?

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    You are clueless when it comes to real swimming even though you might read lots and lots of books.

    Why settle for less and trap yourself in the books?
    The silence is deafening...

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    The silence is deafening...
    What??


  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by scott r. Brown View Post
    what??

    :d
    pay attention!!!

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    pay attention!!!
    I couldn't hear you because "The silence is deafening.....!"

  9. #54
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    Some nice research here.

    The full article is online - follow the link
    Impact of Medical Qigong on quality of life, fatigue, mood and inflammation in cancer patients: a randomized controlled trial
    B. Oh1,2,3,*, P. Butow2, B. Mullan2, S. Clarke1,3, P. Beale1,3, N. Pavlakis1,4, E. Kothe5, L. Lam6 and D. Rosenthal7

    1 Department of Medicine, Concord Repatriation General Hospital, University of Sydney, Concord
    2 Center for Medical Psychology and Evidence-based Decision-making, School of Psychology, University of Sydney
    3 Sydney Cancer Center, Concord Repatriation General Hospital
    4 Department of Medical Oncology, Royal North Shore Hospital
    5 School of Psychology, University of Sydney
    6 School of Medical Sydney, Notre Dame University, NSW, Australia
    7 Dana-Faber Cancer Institute, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA

    * Correspondence to: Dr B. Oh, Department of Medicine, Concord Repatriation General Hospital, University of Sydney, Concord, New South Wales 2139, Australia. Tel: +61-2-90-36-78-26; Fax: +61-2-93-51-54-88; E-mail: bsoh@med.usyd.edu.au



    Background: Substantial numbers of cancer patients use complementary medicine therapies, even without a supportive evidence base. This study aimed to evaluate in a randomized controlled trial, the use of Medical Qigong (MQ) compared with usual care to improve the quality of life (QOL) of cancer patients.

    Patients and methods: One hundred and sixty-two patients with a range of cancers were recruited. QOL and fatigue were measured by Functional Assessment of Cancer Therapy—General and Functional Assessment of Cancer Therapy—Fatigue, respectively, and mood status by Profile of Mood State. The inflammatory marker serum C-reactive protein (CRP) was monitored serially.

    Results: Regression analysis indicated that the MQ group significantly improved overall QOL (t144 = –5.761, P < 0.001), fatigue (t153 = –5.621, P < 0.001), mood disturbance (t122 =2.346, P = 0.021) and inflammation (CRP) (t99 = 2.042, P < 0.044) compared with usual care after controlling for baseline variables.

    Conclusions: This study indicates that MQ can improve cancer patients’ overall QOL and mood status and reduce specific side-effects of treatment. It may also produce physical benefits in the long term through reduced inflammation.

    cancer, fatigue, inflammation, mood, quality of life
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    The full article is online - follow the link
    doesn't seem to have compared the MQ group to a control group doing exercise of a non-MQ qigong nature...so all we can really say is that when you have cancer doing MQ is better than doing nothing...and since the MQ was being assessed in terms of its impact on mood and an inflammatory marker, we can't even say anything about its impact on cancer per se, we just see the types of changes that have been well-documented in people who engage in pretty much any sort of exercise program, qigong or otherwise;

  11. #56
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    Hmmm...someone should do a study on Dr. Nan Lu

    http://breastcancer.com/self-care/qigong/
    "The true meaning of a given movement in a form is not its application, but rather the unlimited potential of the mind to provide muscular and skeletal support for that movement." Gregory Fong

  12. #57
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    Fibromyalgia study

    More results coming?
    Pain study targets fibromyalgia
    RICHARD WOODBURY FOR METRO HALIFAX
    November 09, 2009 11:13 p.m.

    A study at Dalhousie University is looking at the effect practising a traditional Chinese meditative practice has on fibromyalgia sufferers.

    “Our patients are learning how to do qigong and then we’re asking them to practice qigong for 45 minutes to 60 minutes a day,” says Dr. Mary Lynch, the director of research at the Pain Management Clinic at Dalhousie. “And we’re going to measure their pain and how they manage with their fibromyalgia.”

    Qigong (pronounced chi-gong) involves using body movements and controlled breathing techniques.

    “(Fibromyalgia) causes a tremendous amount of suffering and there are really no good treatments for fibromyalgia right now,” says Lynch.

    “We’re always looking for new treatments that patients can do themselves that are not harmful,” she says.

    The pilot trial at Dalhousie was in 2007 and the results have since been published. Twelve of the 25 patients who continued practising qigong for six months after the trial had positive results.

    “Their pain almost came down, their fibromyalgia impact questionnaire measures improved, and their physical health related quality of life improved,” says Lynch.

    Wanting to study it in more detail, the clinic has one trial on now and is looking to recruit another 100 people for a trial in the spring.

    Another pain study at the university is looking at the impact art and creative pursuits have on chronic pain. Lynch hopes to have the results published by late summer 2010.

    “The data has not been analyzed,” says Lynch, “but I can tell you that my clinical impression, just from what my patients who are artists tell me, is that art and pain can interact in two ways.”
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  13. #58
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    The big hospital near me has a huge new cancer ward. They now have qigong classes for their patients that want it.

    From what I gather from talking to people, it is a case of doing something is better than doing nothing. Taking your mind off your troubles and doing something physical but not stressful or strenuous seems to help some patients get better.
    I guess meditation would do the same thing, but moving qigongs allow one to feel like they are "doing something" to help themselves.

    If it works, it works. It was a means to open the door and start self healing, a trigger for the body.

  14. #59
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    Qigong down under

    Excellent point about herbal supplements. It reminds me of the issues of massage and cancer.

    Mix but don't mismatch: cancer treatments
    * Helen Francombe
    * From: The Australian
    * December 11, 2009 12:00AM

    STEPHEN Clarke confesses to being sceptical at the outset of a scientific trial of qigong, a Chinese mind-body practice involving gentle movements, meditation and breathing exercises.

    But by the trial's end he couldn't deny there was something real, and good, happening to the cancer patients in the qigong classes led by Byeongsong Oh.

    Oh, a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner, is lead author of the study, published in the journal Annals of Oncology.

    "Patients kept telling us `I really feel better' and they had less fatigue and better mood," says professor Clarke, paper co-author and oncologist at the Sydney Cancer Centre and head of the Concord Hospital clinical school.

    But even more surprising were the reductions in patients' blood levels of CRP, or C-reactive protein, compared with the patients who did not do qigong. The protein is a measure of inflammation in the body, which can be related to cancer activity.

    The patients doing qigong also had better cognitive function, less pain and less nausea and vomiting after chemotherapy, Oh says.

    "They were really quite exciting results," says Clarke, who was so impressed that qigong classes are now offered to patients at the Sydney Cancer Centre. Oh will also run classes at Sydney Adventist Hospital, Concord Hospital and Royal North Shore Hospital in the new year.

    In the traditional Chinese medicine model, qigong is described as increasing the flow of energy throughout the body. But in Western medicine the effect could be explained in terms of the "relaxation response", where reducing emotional and physical tension leads to better immune function, Clarke says.

    While this trial is a story of harmonious Western medicine and complementary therapy, that's not always the case. As Clarke notes, almost every second patient coming in for chemotherapy is taking some kind of complementary medicine or supplement that could interfere with treatment by making it less effective or more toxic. The problem is that often their doctors don't know.

    "Complementary medicine is a $2 billion industry in Australia, so there are a lot of people using it, but a fair percentage of those are not telling their doctors," says Clarke, who spoke about complementary medicines at the Clinical Oncological Society of Australia's recent conference on the Queensland Gold Coast.

    Many patients feel uncomfortable talking about their complementary medicines with their doctors because they sense a dismissive attitude and this can lead to a dangerous breakdown in communication, he says. "Cancer clinicians need to take their patients' interest in alternative therapies seriously, while patients need to understand that mixing conventional and unconventional therapies can reduce the efficacy of prescription medicines and increase overall drug toxicity."

    For example, some herbal supplements can change the way patients' bodies absorb or excrete their chemotherapy drugs. If excretion is slowed down, they could get much more toxicity from the drug, and if excretion is sped up, the drug could be out of their system too fast to do its job properly.

    Geeta Sandhu is a cancer pharmacist and safe medicines specialist at Brisbane's Princess Alexandra Hospital, where all patients attend an information session before they have chemotherapy. Patients are asked to bring in absolutely everything they are taking, including vitamins, supplements and herbs, to head off any potential interactions.

    This has proved worthwhile. A one-month survey of cancer patients by Sandhu and her colleagues Trang Le and Janet Weir showed more than half take some kind of complementary medicine, and 84 per cent of these have the potential to cause problems with their cancer treatment. Sandhu says: "When we find patients are taking something with the potential for interaction, we talk it over with them and they usually decide to stop taking the supplement once they have the information."

    Antioxidants are a prime example of a popular but problematic supplement, as they can cancel some of the effect of chemotherapy,Sandhu explains. "Chemotherapy drugs work by free radical oxygenation to kill cancer cells and antioxidant supplements mop up these free radicals that chemotherapy tries to create, so they are potentially reducing the efficacy of treatment."

    In some cases patients unwittingly take supplements that could stimulate their cancer. For instance, some women with breast cancer take herbal supplements with oestrogen-like effects to help with symptoms of early menopause. Sandhu warns that's dangerous for those who have the kind of breast cancer that's sensitive to oestrogen as the supplement could stimulate their cancer to grow.

    Black cohosh, a component of some herbal remedies for menopause symptoms, is one such oestrogenic supplement Sandhu watches out for with women who have breast cancer. She says black cohosh can also cause serious liver problems in some people. "But black cohosh may not be as problematic for women who don't have an oestrogen-sensitive tumour and don't have any risk factors for liver problems, so we have to look at it on a case-by-case basis."

    Other supplements that can cause toxicity include apricot kernel extracts (laetrile/amygdalin), which contain small amounts of cyanide and in significant doses could lead to cyanide poisoning.

    While there's reasonable evidence about the safety and efficacy of complementary medicines, more is definitely needed, Sandhu says. "The level of evidence is not as solid as we would like; there aren't the big trials we get with drug companies."

    "We need more information" is the message COSA gets from its members, says Kathy Ansell, a COSA project co-ordinator who helps facilitate the complementary therapies interest group. "They want their patients to get the best treatment and are keen to see the evidence about what works and what doesn't. It also upsets them to see patients wasting money on things that don't work and, in some cases, using therapies that can be harmful," she says.

    Ansell, a former oncology nurse, is working on a website with reliable information about complementary medicines for COSA members, who include oncologists, pharmacists and nurses.

    And as reported in Weekend Health last week, University of Sydney pharmacology professors Basil Roufogalis and Andrew McLachlan have teamed up with medical information provider Unity Health to launch an internet database that allows subscribers to search for drug and herb interactions.

    Still, for many complementary therapies, the trials simply have not been done, Clarke says.

    He argues rigorous trials of complementary therapies offer two benefits: reliable information on efficacy and safety, and more willingness from patients to tell doctors about their complementary therapies. "When patients see that doctors are taking complementary therapies seriously by studying them, they feel they are less likely to get a negative reaction about their own complementary therapies," he says, adding that it's likely that trials of complementary therapies would identify some that are truly effective.

    "Many of our conventional cancer drugs are derived from herbs or are based on old remedies, so it is only logical that some other herbal supplements may be of real value," he says.

    Cancer Council Australia chief executive Ian Olver would also like to see many more complementary therapies subjected to scientific trials. "We want patients to know about interactions between complementary therapies and medical treatment, and also what they can realistically expect from a therapy because there are some pretty extravagant claims made for some of them."

    Apart from potential physical harm, patients can also be hurt in the hip pocket, Olver says, as many complementary therapies aren't cheap.

    Self-empowerment is one of the reasons many people with cancer use complementary therapies, but it also has to do with pursuing every last possibility. "We are absolutely not critical of patients exploring these, but we want to make sure they have information about what is useful and what is potentially harmful. Just because it is natural doesn't mean it is safe."

    Cancer Council NSW's booklet can be obtained at www.cancercouncil.com.au or by calling 13 11 20.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  15. #60
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    Improving QoL

    As always, I'm curious to the specific form of qigong, but it's a promising study.
    Medical Qigong May Improve Quality of Life of Cancer Patients

    Researchers from Australia have reported that medical Qigong (MQ) can improve quality of life (QoL) of cancer patients compared with standard care. The details of this study were published in the March 2010 issue of Annals of Oncology.[1]

    Medical Qigong is an ancient Chinese medical practice that uses physical activity and meditation “to harmonize the body, mind and spirit.” Qi in Chinese means breath, and gong means work. Qigong is described as “working with ones life force.” Qigong is generally practiced in groups guided by a leader.

    The current study included 162 patients with a variety of cancers who were randomly allocated to usual care or to participate in MQ.

    Patients in the MQ group received a two 90-minute supervised MQ sessions per week for 10 weeks. MQ sessions were “modified from traditional Quigong practice by the instructor to specifically target the needs of cancer patients to control emotions and stress as well as to improve physical function.” Session are described as follows: “Each session consisted of 15-min discussion of health issues, 30-min gentle stretching and body movement in standing postures to stimulate the body along energy channels, 15-min movements in seated posture, and 30-min meditation including breathing exercises…”

    Twenty-five patients in the MQ group and 29 in the control group dropped out of the study. Fifty-four remained in each group for analysis. These authors reported that patients in the MQ group had significant improvement in overall QoL measurements, fatigue, mood disturbance, and inflammation compared with usual care. They concluded: “This study indicates that MQ can improve cancer patients’ overall QOL and mood status and reduce specific side-effects of treatment. It may also produce physical benefits in the long term through reduced inflammation.”

    Comments: This study is provocative and indicates that MQ could be of benefit to cancer patients. This program was led by an expert in Chinese medicine; such leadership may be necessary for good results. However, there are several Web sites devoted to Qigong that can be accessed through a Google search for “medical Qigong.” CDs are available to describe the technique.

    Reference:

    [1] Oh B, Butow P, Mullan B, et al. Impact of medical Quigong on quality of life, fatigue, mood and inflammation in cancer patients: a randomized controlled trial. Annals of Oncology. 2010;21:608-614.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

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