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Thread: There is no such thing as structure

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    How does sleeping while standing up help you do anything regarding flow if you don't have an opponent?
    The only place this practice can get you is on the floor when you nod off

    Isnt it strange that all the internal TCMA has to practice these year in and year out..... ?

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Scroll down, from what I have learn, that is exactly how I train my flexflow according to Yik Kam's SLT teaching from the redboat. That is the first post of SLT.

    http://web.mit.edu/qigong/global.htm


    How is this practice result in a flex flow? or power at all?

    any ideas? what do you think? can this practice get me any where?
    sounds like your trying to sell something. What does the method contain? What is the purpose and what has been your results?

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by punchdrunk View Post
    sounds like your trying to sell something. What does the method contain? What is the purpose and what has been your results?
    I have nothing to sell.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Isnt it strange that all the internal TCMA has to practice these year in and year out..... ?
    No, it's strange that you think falling asleep while standing will in any way help you fight with WC.

    You asked in relation to your video:
    "How is this practice result in a flex flow? or power at all?"

    It doesn't. You can't flow without an opponent or training partner. You can't develop power by sleeping. If this is how you train, I'd love to see the results of you sparring someone with that..

    "any ideas? what do you think? can this practice get me any where"

    Only a bump on the head when you hit the floor asleep.... seems like you've done that a few times.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    No, it's strange that you think falling asleep while standing will in any way help you fight with WC.

    You asked in relation to your video:
    "How is this practice result in a flex flow? or power at all?"

    It doesn't. You can't flow without an opponent or training partner. You can't develop power by sleeping. If this is how you train, I'd love to see the results of you sparring someone with that..

    "any ideas? what do you think? can this practice get me any where"

    Only a bump on the head when you hit the floor asleep.... seems like you've done that a few times.


    What do you all think on above reply?

    Any thoughts?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    Hendrik is correct.

    In the end, there is no structure - we just change in accord of the moment.

    Structure is just a useful tool, but when you've attained it, its automatic. Its certainly not fixed. It can be contained in many shapes...so it is not just how a system looks.

    Just like a boat that crosses over the water, you don't need that boat anymore.

    Vessels are the martial arts systems. The size, shape, build, weight, etc, determines the use of it. But underlying is how it is used.

    Martial arts systems are used to teach structure, and structure is to teach the organ system and their respective souls, and then all is empty.
    So your four structure tests are just an illusion then, eh Robert?
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    Hendrik is correct.

    In the end, there is no structure - we just change in accord of the moment.

    Structure is just a useful tool, but when you've attained it, its automatic. Its certainly not fixed. It can be contained in many shapes...so it is not just how a system looks.

    Just like a boat that crosses over the water, you don't need that boat anymore.

    Vessels are the martial arts systems. The size, shape, build, weight, etc, determines the use of it. But underlying is how it is used.

    Martial arts systems are used to teach structure, and structure is to teach the organ system and their respective souls, and then all is empty.

    Robert,

    What's the difference between how you apply structure by using alignment to relax/tighten certain muscles compare to what Hendrik refers to as "there is no structure but flexflow, comes accept goes return it using silence to lead action Similar to water.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    So your four structure tests are just an illusion then, eh Robert?
    Yup. 4 structure tests became 8, then 16, then 64, then the entire system...finally, there was no need for structure tests. If you have it, you have it. If you don't you don't. Even if you have it and don't do it at the right time, you don't have it.

    All of this is Maya.

    Maybe too much Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj lately...

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu fighter View Post
    Robert,

    What's the difference between how you apply structure by using alignment to relax/tighten certain muscles compare to what Hendrik refers to as "there is no structure but flexflow, comes accept goes return it using silence to lead action Similar to water.
    Navin,

    I just answered your question. Hendrik is talking about "letting go of self". if you missed what I wrote, "If you have it, you have it. If you don't you don't. Even if you have it and don't do it at the right time, you don't have it."

    You only have it when you let go.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Yup, there is no such thing as structure in WCK.

    The ultimate of WCK is comes accept goes return it using silence to lead action.


    Similar to water, there is no structure but flexflow.


    So, why is it structure becomes popular?

    1, because WCner cant handle the flexflow at the begining, thus a fix structure is use as an aid or intermediate tool to explain and cultivate a certain fix point's force vectors execution.

    Thus, keeping a certain structure is actually become a self-hinderance to advance art of daily reality.


    2, mimic-ing other southern style which is no WCK such as SMT unknowingly.

    3, mimic-ing Taiji teaching aids while un aware of Taiji also has no structure.


    Thus, if you think you are going to learn about structure in SLT/SNt and that structure is going to do magic for you. Well, sorry, you walk a mislead path.

    Certainly, you might argue with me that putting your body behind your elbow.....ect will give you more power .... structure power.....

    Sure, but those are not the flexflow, that structure is only as good as the strenght of your opponents. if your opponents has more power, you cant stance a chance. Why? because this type of strcuture is based on the stronger the opposition force win.

    See, in reality, there are three states, the resistance, the withdraw, and the dissolve.

    Most 95% of people know only the resistance and the with draw, those are stuff within the realm of more power will win. as for the dissolve, that is the entering into the flexflow. until dissolve is known. there is no flexflow and thus default back to who is strong who win.



    "comes accept goes return " prerequisite is dissolve state. and not resistance and or withdraw, withdrawing is not accept resisting is not return.



    What do you think?
    Good post I think you answered your own questions about structure and what you call the flex flow. What I call empty or a flowing structure one that is motion like water. Structure as you said is a begiining not the end alll be all. even flex-flow is not the end. One must learn how to crawl before one can walk.
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  11. #26
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    With the risk of confusing the heck out of you guys:

    All directions are within the mind. I am not asking you to look in any particular direction. Just look away from all that happens in your mind and bring it to the feeling ‘I am’. The ‘I am’ is not a direction. It is the negation of all directions. Ultimately even the ‘I am’ will have to go for you need not keep asserting what is obvious. Bringing the mind to the feeling ‘I am’ merely helps turning the mind away from everything else.

    Go deep into the sense of ‘I am’ and you will find. How do you find a thing you have mislaid or forgotten? You keep it in your mind until you recall it. The sense of being, of ‘I am’ is the first to emerge. Ask yourself whence it comes or just watch it quietly. When the mind stays in the ‘I am’, without moving, you enter a state, which cannot be verbalized, but which can be experienced. All you need to do is to try and try again. After all the sense of ‘I am’ is always with you, only you have attached all kinds of things to it- body, feelings, thoughts, ideas, possessions and so on. All these self-identifications are misleading, because of these you take yourself to be what you are not.

    - Nisargadatta Maharaj

    That is why Hendrik appears to be sleeping.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    Hendrik is correct.

    In the end, there is no structure - we just change in accord of the moment.

    Structure is just a useful tool, but when you've attained it, its automatic. Its certainly not fixed. It can be contained in many shapes...so it is not just how a system looks.

    Just like a boat that crosses over the water, you don't need that boat anymore.

    Vessels are the martial arts systems. The size, shape, build, weight, etc, determines the use of it. But underlying is how it is used.

    Martial arts systems are used to teach structure, and structure is to teach the organ system and their respective souls, and then all is empty.
    nicely put, bro. i agree 100%!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Robert has described clearly what is no structure above.
    I understand now. You have an interesting point. Hopefully, my understanding is adequate so that I can explore it with you. I typically refer to what you are talking about as "no mind" or void rather than structure. Myself, and others, tend to perceive structure as a standard way of going about things within a system. Although, I see your point about how at a high level that the standard structure can lose its character as well.

    I am not a JKD man or anything but I respect Dan Inosanto as a true master of what he does. He once said something to the effect of, "At high levels it all just looks like kicking and punching." On some level, I see how as masters of different arts converge in mental states, they also converge in form, or lack there of as you say. Do you agree with this?

    Also, in your training, I see an external representation of relaxation and what appears to be you being in the moment. What is your internal/mental state?

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by HumbleWCGuy View Post
    I understand now. You have an interesting point. Hopefully, my understanding is adequate so that I can explore it with you. I typically refer to what you are talking about as "no mind" or void rather than structure. Myself, and others, tend to perceive structure as a standard way of going about things within a system. Although, I see your point about how at a high level that the standard structure can lose its character as well.

    I am not a JKD man or anything but I respect Dan Inosanto as a true master of what he does. He once said something to the effect of, "At high levels it all just looks like kicking and punching." On some level, I see how as masters of different arts converge in mental states, they also converge in form, or lack there of as you say. Do you agree with this?

    Also, in your training, I see an external representation of relaxation and what appears to be you being in the moment. What is your internal/mental state?

    To be real honest,
    Once you need to hold on a certain structure you have set up your weakness for attack.

    In general, why is so many WCner get take down easy? the structure doesnt work? Nope, the structure they train in work perfectly, the only thing they mis calculate is all existing structure got weakness. and unless one can adaptively change structure, keeping one structure is dead deal.


    Sure, in the advance level we can talk about no self. however have is no self no mind in daily layman term?

    simple, it is just not stuck in one mind set. see every mind set is a self. and self got nothing wrong, it is that stuck in one mind set and thinking that is everything that screw us.

    Same with physical same with mental, not stuck is flow. that simple, but then we mostly keep training on one type of mind set and or one type of physical way and thinking that mind set and physical way will become the rule of the universe, well, sorry, at the end we all will be dissapointed because not keeping one mind set is the truth. thinking one mind set or one physical way is the ultimate is actually walking into doom's day --- stuck or as is it said in Buddhism Dukka everything stuck and nothing move.



    Zen is simple, just dont attached. no self is just dont purposely get stuck in emphasis on oneself. no mind is just knowing different variaty of thoughts surface but not get carry away be them blindly. practice that daily and you practice zen.

    and if you mind dont get stuck your physical will not get stuck too.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 10-21-2009 at 05:49 PM.

  15. #30
    flewflow is the dynamic structure. one first learn all the key structures then master all of them, then forget about structure, then one will become what it needs to be when one needs a structure.

    no mind, mind is just a hinderance. No applied this tan sau that fook sau that body behind the elbow.....etc.


    No thinking. by passed thinking.


    until one get to that state one doesnt know dynamic structure but similar to a parrot trying to mimic human. getting stuck with this structure or that tan sau indicate a stuck in the mind that means stuck in the body execution.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 10-21-2009 at 05:54 PM.

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