Shaolin Xin Yi related sets

[wuseng33]

yes i was originaly introduced to the louhan shi san gong as just rou quan but later learned of the other name which seems more common for this set, I also thought it was better to call it this as i have seen some different versions of rouquan but whenever i have heard of shi san gong it was always the same set.
the shifu who taught me these sets is shifu brett russell "xing wu" in australia and he learned them from "shi de feng" who is also know as feng shan or benny fan who was a deciple of master suxi and a training brother of master de yang.
there is a 3rd set of rou quan san lu and i have seen shifu brett russell do it and too me from memory "and its been a while" seemed very simlar to chen lao jia forms and is on the top of my list for forms to learn in the future.

[Sal Canzonieri]

yes i was originaly introduced to the louhan shi san gong as just rou quan but later learned of the other name which seems more common for this set, I also thought it was better to call it this as i have seen some different versions of rouquan but whenever i have heard of shi san gong it was always the same set.
the shifu who taught me these sets is shifu brett russell "xing wu" in australia and he learned them from "shi de feng" who is also know as feng shan or benny fan who was a deciple of master suxi and a training brother of master de yang.
there is a 3rd set of rou quan san lu and i have seen shifu brett russell do it and too me from memory "and its been a while" seemed very simlar to chen lao jia forms and is on the top of my list for forms to learn in the future.

cool.

LFJ, does Shi deyang do these three Rou Quan sets?

If so, he should do them on video, I think a lot more people would be interested in seeing them vs yet another version of Xiao Hong Quan.

[wuseng33]

yeah would be great to see a few more of these old sets making an re emergence. what particularly interests me also is some of the variations on some of the applications as i have seen a few for these 2 forms with some as plain as day and some that i would have never even imagined.

[LFJ]

Shi Yong Xin's Chan Hu Xin Yi Men book vs:

- Shaolin Encyc. version is pretty close, up until the very last section, then they go astray pretty much. Shi Yongxin's version has more transitional movements shown as well.

- Tagou version is close to about half way through the set, then they go far far astray from each other, barely matching up to the very end of the sets. Tagou verison has too many repeating parts that get very confusing.

the shaolin encyc. introduction to it names liu baoshan as one of the present day inheritors of the style. and i've heard him say changhuxinyimen & qixingquan are the true treasures in tagou.

if thats the case i wonder if their version is not older and/or more accurate. the encyc. also talked about how many of the repetitive sequences were taken out by various monks who edited the set through history, while tagou's seem to still have many of them.

hmm.

[Sal Canzonieri]

the shaolin encyc. introduction to it names liu baoshan as one of the present day inheritors of the style. and i've heard him say changhuxinyimen & qixingquan are the true treasures in tagou.

if thats the case i wonder if their version is not older and/or more accurate. the encyc. also talked about how many of the repetitive sequences were taken out by various monks who edited the set through history, while tagou's seem to still have many of them.

hmm.

Hmm, yeah, that calls for a more finer comparison between the two versions.
Liu Baoshan's sons made the Tagou books.

I have Liu Baoshan's new DVDs on these sets, I'll have to see how he does them himself and compare.

[r.(shaolin)]

Is this this the site in question?

http://www.bennyfan.com/martialarts.html

r.

ps sal and LFJ
here is that crossed and palm crossed palm yinxiang (印相) again
first photo, second row.
http://www.bennyfan.com/photos.html

[Sal Canzonieri]

r.

ps sal and LFJ
here is that crossed and palm crossed palm yinxiang (印相) again
first photo, second row.

Understood.
There are various sets in Songshan Shaolin that start and end with that salute.

I know that the Xiao Luohan Quan set does that for sure, as well as some other Luohan sets.

I think it is is Luohan thing, that would make sense because they would come from the same root as your lineage of Shaolin Quan: Jue Yuan and Bai Yufeng.

[wuseng33]

practicing gongfu is different for everyone who practices, there is no right or wrong method and in modern times it is mainly done for health benifits. it is also what you make of it whether you practice for health, martial, historical and cultural benifits like has been noted previously not every taolu has been documented so who is to say who is right or wrong? we can only seach as best possible for the most original information. sal i am not calling you out but would also appreciate seeing some footage of your self, do you have any? I have seen shifu brett russell do some great things in the past that i have not seen many people do such as some hard qi gong and will personaly say that he puts in more hard work than any other foreign martial artist i have ever met. each individual houses their own unique talents and should not be judged until the end product is reached which may just be enlightenment?
I am not here to argue with anyone just continue learning about shaolin.

[LFJ]

Understood.
There are various sets in Songshan Shaolin that start and end with that salute.

I know that the Xiao Luohan Quan set does that for sure, as well as some other Luohan sets.

I think it is is Luohan thing, that would make sense because they would come from the same root as your lineage of Shaolin Quan: Jue Yuan and Bai Yufeng.

but it is also used in other sets, such as datongbiquan, dameihuaquan, etc.. but as an application, not just a salute. see here at :07, datongbiquan applications;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_tT_EZujCg

r.(shaolin),

what is the name of the salute? in the luohan 18 shou yilu set the first one is called "fuzi gongshou" (夫子拱手), which is sort of a salutation type of name. but then, when it flips over it is called "baihu xilian" (白虎洗脸). and at the end it is again different; "xianren guidong" (仙人归洞). they each have different applications, and therefore different names.

[r.(shaolin)]

but it is also used in other sets, such as datongbiquan, dameihuaquan, etc.. but as an application, not just a salute. see here at :07, datongbiquan applications;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_tT_EZujCg

r.(shaolin),

what is the name of the salute? in the luohan 18 shou yilu set the first one is called "fuzi gongshou" (夫子拱手), which is sort of a salutation type of name. but then, when it flips over it is called "baihu xilian" (白虎洗脸). and at the end it is again different; "xianren guidong" (仙人归洞). they each have different applications, and therefore different names.

First of all I do not disagree, this kind of gesture does have applications and can appear in the middle of sets as well. In our school we have this as well.
However "fuzi gongshou" (夫子拱手) this name suggests a salute as you say.

This crossed wrist/male/female hand salute (skill/method enforcing wisdom) is a kind of mudra/salute (yinxiang 印相) called 施無畏印/Shiwu weiyin) I believe. This yinxiang 印相 can be used to greet one's teacher or other students as well (施無畏印相). Actually the meaning and history of this gesture is more complicated than this.

r.

[LFJ]

This crossed wrist/male/female hand salute (skill/method enforcing wisdom) is a kind of mudra/salute (yinxiang 印相) called 施無畏印/Shiwu weiyin) I believe. This is yinxiang 印相 can be use to greet one's teacher or other students as well. Actually the meaning and history of this gesture is more complicated than this.

hmm, 施無畏印 is the chinese translation of abhayaprada mudra, aka the fearlessness mudra. which is usually just the right hand held up at chest level with the palm facing toward the object as if to say "fear not".

[r.(shaolin)]

hmm, 施無畏印 is the chinese translation of abhayaprada mudra, aka the fearlessness mudra. which is usually just the right hand held up at chest level with the palm facing toward the object as if to say "fear not".

re: http://www.bennyfan.com/photos.html

That's right. There is both a right; a left (used by bodhisattva guardians) the one we use mostly; a right and left; and a crossed version which is possibly 伏魔印 connected to Vajrapani 金剛手菩薩. I'm looking for the characters for these.
r.

[Sal Canzonieri]

but it is also used in other sets, such as datongbiquan, dameihuaquan, etc.. but as an application, not just a salute. see here at :07, datongbiquan applications;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_tT_EZujCg

r.(shaolin),

what is the name of the salute? in the luohan 18 shou yilu set the first one is called "fuzi gongshou" (夫子拱手), which is sort of a salutation type of name. but then, when it flips over it is called "baihu xilian" (白虎洗脸). and at the end it is again different; "xianren guidong" (仙人归洞). they each have different applications, and therefore different names.

One interesting thing about these movements of this set is that they are essentially the same functionally and so on as Bagua Zhang's Single Palm Change. in fact, the whole first section is the first three palm changes, and most of the rest of the set has classic Bagua Zhang postures and movements.

[r.(shaolin)]

hmm, 施無畏印 is the chinese translation of abhayaprada mudra, aka the fearlessness mudra. which is usually just the right hand held up at chest level with the palm facing toward the object as if to say "fear not".

re: http://www.bennyfan.com/photos.html

That's right. There is both a right; a left (used by bodhisattva guardians) the one we use mostly; a right and left; and a crossed version which is possibly 伏魔印 connected to Vajrapani 金剛手菩薩. I'm looking for the characters for these.

We also use the yinxiang 印相, of 甘露王 Gan Lu Wang Buddha (seal of Calmness-Buddha calms a charging elephant. This is also is a kind of 施無畏印/Shiwu weiyin.
r.

[r.(shaolin)]

Posted by Shifu Xing Wu
There are also many variations of the forms, and some if many aren't documented.....

The interesting thing is, my Shifu, like most Shaolin Temple Masters[old school],not the display ones, . . ..
There are so many more lines of Traditional Shaolin Masters who left the temple,

good point.
r.