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Thread: resistance, withdraw, dissolve

  1. #16
    you can dissolve force easily by punching it in the head twice, quickly...no more force it is dissolved ...like the image of the moon the monkey tries to catch on the surface of the water..it has penetrated below the surface and is still, yet the monkey keeps grabbing at it...

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    I am certainly not making pronouncement, that I am not interested at all.

    There are key mechanics needed to be able to dissolve incoming force.
    I am describing the general System dynamic of today's SLT which lack of this time of mechanics.


    If you disagree with me, please
    convince me it is different by share with me what is the system dynamics needed and inplace in what you practice. I am certainly open to learn.
    I beg to disagree, using bong sao together with turning of ma, has the effect
    of dissolving force... And this was the very first lessons i learn in Wing Chun...
    "In fighting, the hand you can see will not hurt you, the hand you cannot see, will hurt you." - Grandmaster Gary Lam

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by -木叶- View Post
    I beg to disagree, using bong sao together with turning of ma, has the effect
    of dissolving force... And this was the very first lessons i learn in Wing Chun...
    Bong with turning horse is a redirection - sounds more like Hendrik's description of withdrawal.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    Bong with turning horse is a redirection - sounds more like Hendrik's description of withdrawal.


    yup. It doesnt dissolve the incoming forces.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    Bong with turning horse is a redirection - sounds more like Hendrik's description of withdrawal.
    I beg to disagree with this and also Hendrik's next reply, dissolve means
    to 化, by doing bong with turning horse, we are actually dissolving force, we
    all know that force cannot be gone instantly, it has to go somewhere... it is
    impossible to me at least, to enable incoming force to go from 100 to 0 instantly, we either absorb it or redirect it, or evade it altogether.

    Please correct me.
    "In fighting, the hand you can see will not hurt you, the hand you cannot see, will hurt you." - Grandmaster Gary Lam

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by -木叶- View Post
    I beg to disagree with this and also Hendrik's next reply, dissolve means
    to 化, by doing bong with turning horse, we are actually dissolving force, we
    all know that force cannot be gone instantly, it has to go somewhere... it is
    impossible to me at least, to enable incoming force to go from 100 to 0 instantly, we either absorb it or redirect it, or evade it altogether.

    Please correct me.


    You know why lots of WCner always got take down?

    Because they think they can turning horse.....etc structure....ect. to dissolving force, yes no turning or using some type of strucutre to sustain the incoming force via some rooting from the ground (which in fact nail oneself dead and cant move when one was in that position of rooting).





    those are withdrawing, angling , and resisting not dissolving.

    and if they missed an angle or got set up to do a wrong turn. they are walking right into a trap.



    Dissolving, 化, means you dont have to turn. you take it right there and dissolve it there.
    That is Kung fu that is what I am talking about in 1850. all those turning, structure angling.... are great. but those cant replace the true Dissolving ability. That is a reality and disregards anyone want to argue that is fine with me. if the art is there is there if it is gone it is gone.

    people can talk smart and keep trying to be smart but if you have never seen it you dont know it exist.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 10-27-2009 at 10:09 AM.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Dissolving, 化, means you dont have to turn. you take it right there and dissolve it there.
    Thanks for the reply, correct my understanding, does it translate
    to Taiji's push hands, where you can receive force and use it back to the opponent?
    "In fighting, the hand you can see will not hurt you, the hand you cannot see, will hurt you." - Grandmaster Gary Lam

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by -木叶- View Post
    Thanks for the reply, correct my understanding, does it translate
    to Taiji's push hands, where you can receive force and use it back to the opponent?

    Nope. nothing to do with Taiji push hands.

    For those who have it, one can place a palm on his chest and he can execute the Resisting via hard qigong/rooting, withdrawing via turning/shift/back...ect, and dissolving by just an intention. and you can feel the distinct different between them. from how your force application response back to you.




    resisting will counter the force and compete on your strenght and structure....etc.

    withdrawing means you are force out of the position often, unless it is a purposely set up.

    Dissolving means the incoming force has minimum affect on him and he could response freely similar to the force you applied is not there.. as for resisting there always are a certain counter force needed to sustatin. withdrawing mostly means you give up your position.



    Advance Chinese IMA have it, the taiji classic describe it well. one feather cannot land. in body of the person who is dissolving the in coming force, applied force to him cannot focus in his body, thus the incoming force doesnt affect his free action.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 10-27-2009 at 10:23 AM.

  9. #24
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    C'mon then Hendrik, how's it done?

    No resistance obviously and no redirection which would be the "obvious" answer. I like your bean bag analogy but humans are bone, sinew and muscle, how do we dissolve incoming force?

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    C'mon then Hendrik, how's it done?

    No resistance obviously and no redirection which would be the "obvious" answer. I like your bean bag analogy but humans are bone, sinew and muscle, how do we dissolve incoming force?


    It can be done. lots of advance IMA can do it.

    One's body needs to be transform and that is the training of IMA. What you describe is true, bone, sinew.....etc however that is not what reality is. The same bone, sinew, muscle can do lots of things.


    Speaking with key common denominator of advance TCMA IMA.

    1850, the trace of art is within SLT. Today, almost NONE. there are signature one can trace. it is an open secret in front of one's eyes.



    and Key number one, if you are practicing your SLT with the forward pressure intention or force That guarentee you are drilling Resistance.

    Key number two, if you are practicing your SLT with your body behind your elbow with forward pressure intention. that also guarentee you are drilling resistance.


    Key number three, those who practice resistance be it with intention or structure is in the arena of competing force to force. that is the hard way.

    You might not like to hear what I just post. but that is reality.
    and there is nothing wrong with the hard way. it is just a different way.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 10-27-2009 at 10:34 AM.

  11. #26
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    Hi Hendrik,

    It seems you've avoided posting any kind of practical, explorable information, and told us instead about the people and style who could do what you're thinking about.

    Why not just explain a drill that is used to practice and develop this process/phenomenon? Wait, let me guess: it requires hooking up to an EEG machine for correct training.

    I have like 3 different ideas in my head regarding what you might be blathering on about. The one that springs to mind most prominently based on what you've written is a concept I train called "catching." Before I post them, though, it'd be nice to get some sort of clear explanation from you as to what the process/phenomenon/technique of "dissolving" is - preferrably in a real or theoretical human vs. human scenario, without reference to the 1850s. Also, do you have any vids which might show what you're describing?
    "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    You know why lots of WCner always got take down?
    Yes. Because they stand with their feet too close together, they have no bridge in the lower gate to deal with a changing level wrestler, and they don't practice defending takedowns.

    Instead, they pursue some magical internal quality whereby they can "dissolve" a takedown attempt which somehow people in the 1850's who did SLT had but nobody does today.

    Whereas WC'ers who do not get taken down actually practice against takedowns, and "dissolve" the takedown attempt the same way all other skilled fighters do, which is by some form of "sprawling".

  13. #28
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    You know why lots of WCner always got take down?
    Because they spend their time discussing hairsplitting semantics like whether bon "dissolves" or "redirects", and trying to out airhead each other on internet forums, instead of learning to frigging SPRAWL.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
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  14. #29
    yeah sprawl...btw bong is for recovering an attacking entry line not redirecting and being passive.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    yeah sprawl...btw bong is for recovering an attacking entry line not redirecting and being passive.

    Who cares about redirecting and recovering?

    BOng is alike a rotating three fins fan blade cut the heck out of everything, untouchable.

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