Explaining Qi/energy

[Sal Canzonieri]

Saying 氣 "Qi" means simply "air" is a too simple of a translation of the word, too colloquial, too childish even. When you see "air" they don't mean it the same way as "air" of the five elements, that's an entirely different word, which is 空 - Kong. Even 空氣 Kong Qi means "atmosphere", rather than simply air.
When used in conjunction with "Qi", the literal word for air is more correct as being: 氣態 - Qì Tài.

"Gas" is just a valid of a literal translation for the character "Qi", perhaps more so than "air".

"Qi" is more correctly translated as "Vital Breath", which as far as I have ever read the ancient classics was used to mean "essence".
They mean it as the inner "vapors', "spirit', "humors" (of ancient western alchemy and early medicine), "life force", "intrinsic energy".

There are plenty of natural processes that don't involve air that would pertain to "qi". For example, there are plenty of anaerobic bacteria and virus and so on that don't involve air at all. But, clearly viruses have "Qi", even very disruptive Qi. A fetus inside the womb is not breathing air (absorbing oxygen, but not literally 'air", from the mother's bloodstream, but a fetus is considered to be the atom bomb of Qi.

With air, there must be oxygen, but with there doesn't have to be oxygen for Qi to exist in many type of natural things.

Even the non-Chinese concepts that are similar to "Qi" from other cultures refer to the "soul", the "internal forces" than actual "air".

Is there air at the atomic level? at the sub-atomic level? at the quantum level?
No, but there is Qi at these levels.

Clearly, energy is the more accurate way to translate what is meant by "Qi".

[Scott R. Brown]

Air, oxygen, is what the body uses to metabolize solid fuel into energy. (See the Kreb's Cycle) All bodily functions require oxygen for metabolism, but they also require glucose, minerals, water, etc. If any of these are missing the body cannot function and energy cannot be produced.

So while we can say the body requires air, it also requires food and water. The argument that air is more important than these others because we will die sooner without air is is a bit misleading, because the body cannot store air, while it can store food and water. THAT is why we die sooner without air than food and water.

[Scott R. Brown]

And props to hendrik, THANK YOU for being informative and sharing your views without condescension.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Air, oxygen, is what the body uses to metabolize solid fuel into energy. (See the Kreb's Cycle) All bodily functions require oxygen for metabolism, but they also require glucose, minerals, water, etc. If any of these are missing the body cannot function and energy cannot be produced.

So while we can say the body requires air, it also requires food and water. The argument that air is more important than these others because we will die sooner without air is is a bit misleading, because the body cannot store air, while it can store food and water. THAT is why we die sooner without air than food and water.

Agreed, and as I said before, there are an-aerobic life forms that don't use oxygen and they are alive and have "Qi" since they live and multiply and effect other things.

[Scott R. Brown]

Agreed, and as I said before, there are an-aerobic life forms that don't use oxygen and they are alive and have "Qi" since they live and multiply and effect other things.

Hi Sal,

Agreed....my post was addressed to sanjuro!

Qi permeates and infuses everything and is what causes all things and phenomena to exist, not just living things otherwise there would not be heaven Qi and earth Qi!

[sanjuro_ronin]

You guys are talking theory, how do you know that there is "qi" at a sub atomic level?
How do you now that "an-aerobic" life forms have "qi"?
You don't you are theorizing and that is fine, no issues there at all.
But I am focusing on what we DO know.
I keep putting "air" in quotations, it not "air" but breath.
All things "breathe" whether it be air or water or a nice doobie
My point is that the ancients didn't know about the "sub atomic" levels and "an-aerobic" life forms, they knew what they saw and felt.
So, I ask again, can any living creature survive without "air", by "air" I mean "breathing"?

[Sal Canzonieri]

You guys are talking theory, how do you know that there is "qi" at a sub atomic level?
How do you now that "an-aerobic" life forms have "qi"?
You don't you are theorizing and that is fine, no issues there at all.
But I am focusing on what we DO know.
I keep putting "air" in quotations, it not "air" but breath.
All things "breathe" whether it be air or water or a nice doobie
My point is that the ancients didn't know about the "sub atomic" levels and "an-aerobic" life forms, they knew what they saw and felt.
So, I ask again, can any living creature survive without "air", by "air" I mean "breathing"?

Bacteria are living creatures, anaerobic bacteria don't breathe.
Viruses are semi-living creatures, they have DNA and replicate and invade other organism, they don't breathe.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bacteria are living creatures, anaerobic bacteria don't breathe.
Viruses are semi-living creatures, they have DNA and replicate and invade other organism, they don't breathe.

Again, things that the ancients would have no understanding of when they developed their view of "chi".

[Hendrik]

cultivate it and get the Qi surface is the bottom line.
Reasoning will not get it there.



There are a different between relax/posture with Qi Cultivation.
Balance Posture aids Qi cultivation that is for sure; however Qi Cultivation permit large variation in posture.



speaking about Qigong practice or Daoism Qi practice. one has to be able to surface the Qi platform, it is forsure not posture or breathing but not neglected posture and breathing cultivation.


"seek fullness of spirit & mind
and not resemblance of form, posture is changing
with Mind movement, form is simple and intention rich" -- Wang Xiang-Zai



Zen cultivation doesnt not rely on Qi and posture, it by passed them and directly goes into Sheh Shen When Sheh is drop and attain Open up/ seeing the original face one attain the 8 special medirians automatically turn on/open up. This is different platform of cultivation. A higher platform then the Qi cultivation -- As it said, emptiness is my body , physical body is not; the Buddha Nature is my heart, mind is not. Unless one get the proper dhama instuction, in general one doesnt get this far.

As It is said, Even if one practice and cultivate Qi and physical body for millions of Kalpa, one still end up lost all the cultivation when the time is come if one is unable to enter to the gate of Open up/ seeing the buddha nature and go beyond.

[uki]

Again, things that the ancients would have no understanding of when they developed their view of "chi".

unless of course you unsuscribe to the worlds marketted version of history and embrace reality.

[sanjuro_ronin]

unless of course you unsuscribe to the worlds marketted version of history and embrace reality.

Bah !
Reality, what has reality done for me lately?

[uki]

Bah !
Reality, what has reality done for me lately?

exactly the question you should be asking as to why you believe things you do.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

If Qi was/is air, why all this talk about refining Qi?

[uki]

If Qi was/is air, why all this talk about refining Qi?

maybe them old masters were talking about filtering the hashish and opium smoke out of the temple air after those "incense burning ceremonies"??

[Lee Chiang Po]

Again, things that the ancients would have no understanding of when they developed their view of "chi".

This is it in a nutshell. Old wives tales, myth, you name it. Chi is neither air (oxygen) nor nutrients. It is the by product of combining them. Along with other trace elements required to preserve a living body. The energy that the body creates when it consumes these elements is Chi. It then fuels the body's functions. Without it you are considered dead. Trees and plants live, feed, breath, and they create and burn energy as they cycle and grow. Energy can be created in many ways. Movement of water, air, the sun and moon, just about everything can possibly create energy at one time or another. This can be considered Chi. However, this Chi is only good as long as it remains in motion. Chi from living creatures will always be as long as it lives. It dies, and Chi dies with it. For you to lift an arm you must use Chi.
Now, for the superstitious and believers in old wives tales, you can not cultivate Chi except by eating and breathing properly and keeping the body fit. Resting while completely and totally relaxed can well up the energy to some extent, but it burns off quickly once motion is again resumed. If your energy level is low, you can not instantly summon it. It is not a mystical force that can be manipulated that way.
This is why in Wing Chun we remain in a simi relaxed posture and only exert force with the striking hand or arm when it is needed. It uses this Chi or energy at a much reduced rate as compared to some other forms of fighting. And because we are not expending huge amounts of this Chi energy with un necessary body flexing and movement, We can focus it in much stronger amounts in single actions. Stamina, endurance, are just descriptions of high energy. People that are extremely fit, that breath well, and have a fairly decent diet, can carry large amounts of food serums in the blood and convert them more effeciently than those that are not as fit. This conversion is merely that of creating the Chi or energy that fuels the body.

LCP