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Thread: hung mun hand signals

  1. #31
    u r proud of it because?
    this is my mom she is very strong

  2. #32
    my cousin was sold by his best friend as a drug slave to triads in guangdong 8 years ago. they asked for 7000 yuan ransom , took the money and kept him.
    i respect the ming patriotic ideals of the hong men so i wont say anything bad on the internet about them, and the internet isnt for criticisms like that, but some white kung fu hobbyist latching on to chinese gangster culture to be cool, i find that offensive
    this is my mom she is very strong

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    The Dragon Syndicates is also a good book. But, as i did my research, he's rehashing some things previously written down. It's a good book though.

    There are other books out there that will have the hand signals. you can also watch the documentary of Gangland: Chinatown. the signals are there.

    But let me ask you this.....what signals are you trying to learn and why? Once you learn the signals what do you plan on doing with them?
    I'm not trying to learn any hand signals. Since this thread is about hand signals, I want to add my input. I'm going back to lurking mode

  4. #34
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    Check out the Hong Kong triad movie called Election or Triad Election. Directed by Johnny To. There is a scene that breaks down the history of the triads and shows some guys doing Hung Mun Hand signs. Good movie as well. It focuses on the Wo Sing tong.

  5. #35
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    You could also look into mudras which are hand forms used with meditations to form intention for the meditator.
    我不知道。我不能读中国。

    - Don't bother demanding respect. You'll get less. Earn respect through what you do, you get more.

  6. #36
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    Election is a fairly newer movie that starred Yam Dat Wa (Simon Yam) and Koo Tin Lok (Louis Koo). The 1st movie was good, the 2nd one not very good.

  7. #37
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    Frank-

    Here is an interesting article from The grand Lodge in Vancouver in regards to the Hung Men.

    http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/histor...ons/index.html

    This information is pretty much accepted in western masonic orders.
    我不知道。我不能读中国。

    - Don't bother demanding respect. You'll get less. Earn respect through what you do, you get more.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    yeah, i've read that many times. But you got to get some good books out there that will tell you a different perspective. The more you search, you will come to know that Freemason drew upon many different cultures and socieities to create their own society.

    Still, even western freemasonry is in disagreement to many aspects on the origins of their own society. To exclude the Chinese from this IMHO is not only arrogant, but also extremely biased. but thats cool, if you searched more with open eyes, you'd see.
    I have read extensively and yes I agree, the origins are not 100% clear and indeed there is a lot of debate about it. A lot of this comes from the actual establishment of the lodges in the 1700's. But they assuredly did not spring into existence unformed and in fact were very well formed.

    They in fact do not exclude the Chinese and there are a great deal of Free and Accepted Masons who are Chinese, Indian, Arabic, European, African, you name it and they are there in the rank and file of the brotherhood worldwide.

    However, I would add that there is no "G" in chinese ideograms and I would also add that a lot of research beyond that page has been done on the subject.

    In the 1800's the tong borrowed the Masonic symbol with G to gain acceptance in the west. If they were Freemasons they would be simply that. Not a separate and apart order. Their lodges would be gathered under grand lodges and their members would have tokens and grips that would gain them access to all masonic lodges across the world. There odges would be numbered and counted wit the rest around the world. However, this is not the case.

    Quite simply, they are two separate entities. Of course they recognize each other. That is not disputed. And the Free and Accepted Masons don't begrudge the Chinese freemasons for their calling themselves Masons. they just aren't part of that tradition and the Free and accepted masons aren't part of the traditions of the Hung Men.

    They don't flow together, they don't follow the same practices, they don't share the same principles or charters or anything beyond some superficial things. they do not even have the same set up in the lodges.

    A Chinese freemasons lodge has nothing in it that bears similarity to a Freemasons lodge. They certainly don't use the language, names, tokens, grips or rituals of the western traditions.

    If you go deep enough yourself you'll see it. There are a great deal of publications that reveal a great deal of information about Free and Accepted Masons in the western traditions.

    Chinese freemasons cannot go to any masonic lodge and enter as free and accepted masons.

    Really that's all I have to say about it. My family is littered with free and accepted masons going back generations.
    我不知道。我不能读中国。

    - Don't bother demanding respect. You'll get less. Earn respect through what you do, you get more.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    The Tian Ti Hui was also in existence as a secret society of freemasons took place. The two were raised side by side but not with each other.
    The Hung Men and their predecessor was completely whole and apart from Western traditions of freemasonry and did not adopt the western symbol until the 1800's. The Heaven/Earth society goes back so far in antiquity it is not part of what is considered modern freemasonry.


    out of context. i meant to say chinese were not freemasons because they were chinese was the issue. they may not be of western freemasons, but the chinese had their own freemasons pr societies.
    The chinese indeed did have their own secret societies. They did not use the term freemasons until the 1800's when they had their contacts with Lodges in the east.





    Right. The HUNG society Chinese Freemasons uses "洪" or another set of characters connected to the Hung Mun instead that of the "G".
    Chinese freemasons use the G. Use of the different set is not an issue, but I can go take a picture of the Hung Men building on Dundas street here in my city and it quite clearly shows the CHinese freemasons using the "G". For instance, as shown in that article the Hung Men building on Pender street in Vancouver shows this:





    Can you tell me what that means? or what your interpretation of what a Freemason really is?
    What I mean by that is if they were part of the order of free and accepted masons of the western tradition. My "interpretation" of what a freemason is is not my interpretation. It's pretty much laid out in the principles of freemasonry as to what a freemason is and represents in society.

    Also, Freemasons in the western tradition are not a secret society. They are open to any man to join. the only secrets are the grips and tokens and those are only secret so as to know who's knocking on the door and who should be allowed into lodge and identification of degree work done etc etc.
    Last edited by David Jamieson; 12-02-2009 at 01:30 PM.
    我不知道。我不能读中国。

    - Don't bother demanding respect. You'll get less. Earn respect through what you do, you get more.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    You're not being serious are you? Ummmm.....in the late 1870's there were more than 390 of my Hung Mun Lodges with San Francisco being the Overseer of all the other branches. The SF Branch IS the Grand Lodge, hence the chinese terminology of Ng Jo Hung Mung Ghee Kung Jung Tong.

    In Hung Mun there is only ONE Dragon Head. And THAT position is held by SF. There was a Hung Mun Dragon Head in HK but once he died the position was never filled. Our Dragon Head was a soldier under the former.

    We Don't have grips that would allow us access to other lodges? Ummmm sure.



    As i said, Chinese never claimed European Freemasonry. yet......if the Chinese weren't recognized and accepted, we would have never received the HIGHEST Freemason award. That's not something easily given out.
    Perhaps I'm not being clear. Yes, the Hung Men have lodges. However, you as a member of Hung men do not have access to the almost 5000 Freemasons lodges with it's 5 million members worldwide and their lodges throughout the world.

    You may very well gain entry to Hung Men lodges, but not to Masonic lodges of the western traditions. Simply because you are not recognized as a Freemason even though you are a Hung Men member with full privileges to that society. Any member of the Hung Men may join a Masonic lodge of the western tradition. They are not mutual to each other. All other Masonic lodges are in the western tradition around the world.

    A freemason in the US or Canada or anywhere for instance, can go and enter a lodge in Scotland, or Germany. or England or France or Italy or anywhere. He will have his grips and his tokens that will give him access and the only that he will be asked to leave for is if there is degree work being done that is of a level that i above his own.

    so yes, you can go to all the other Hung Men lodges without a doubt! I am not disputing that in the least.

    I am saying that the Hung Men and The western tradition of Freemasonry are not mutual and do not share mutual access or principles or focus or degree work or tradition and so on.

    Hence my original statement that beyond some superficial things, Chinese Freemasons and Free and Accepted Masons of the western tradition are not mutual to each other nor are they connected in anyway beyond that superficiality.

    sorry if I was being unclear.
    Last edited by David Jamieson; 12-02-2009 at 02:04 PM.
    我不知道。我不能读中国。

    - Don't bother demanding respect. You'll get less. Earn respect through what you do, you get more.

  11. #41
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    Nevermind Frank.
    Forget that I even bothered with it, I'm certainly not going to bother anymore with it. lol
    It's not important.

    我不知道。我不能读中国。

    - Don't bother demanding respect. You'll get less. Earn respect through what you do, you get more.

  12. #42
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    I've been to the Lodge on Dundas Street in TO. They use the G just like the Hung Mun Lodge on Mott street in NYC does.
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  13. #43
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    The Craft

    There is a guy who used to post on these forums, who REALLY tried to combine Western Freemasonry with the spin-off "Chinese Freemasonry". Roger Hagood?

    Anyway - I'm sure he has evolved as we all have through these forums, and would have a very interesting take on this subject.

    But again - Western Freemasonry has nothing to do with the Chinese equivilant - check with the Grand Lodge of Britain if you don't believe me - they will be happy to enlighten you. That being said, all mystical traditions share common traits, if you dig hard enough.

    Cheers - AQ

  14. #44
    thanks for the posts. the reason im asking about the hand signals is because i want to stay away from anything that conflicts with Christianity. that being said, which movements represents the five elements? does anyone know if karate uses hung mun signals since southern kung fu influenced karate?

  15. #45
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    nope....i doubt even gung fu has hung mun hand signals......ummmmm what is hung mun? ahhhh i never heard of it.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

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