Strikeforce: Evolutions

[MSphinx]

Scott Smith's a kind of Rocky Balboa fighter. He can take so many hits before coming back to win it's unbelievable. I read somewhere that his striking coach quit on him due to concerns about the damage his fighting style could cause.

Here's his most famous fight before Cung:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCcTAMoaIcI

Fast forward to about 8:15 in. Smith appears ruined by a hard liver shot, but manages to land a knockout hook moments before keeling over himself.

[dimethylsea]

The level of sportsmanship and mutual respect in this fight was OUTSTANDING!

If MMA matches were usually fought this way .. how awesome that would be.

Props to both men!

[Cimaroon]

I keep thinking about Cung...how fun it would have been to have seen him at 25 or 26 years of age embarking on a MMA career. Too bad the timing of the cosmos was off a click. He certainly would have worked his way up to all time great status.

[goju]

Ok apart from the obvious smart arse answer that these techniques are flashy and don’t often work (unless you are Cung lee) There are several other reasons you don’t see these techniques on a regular basis.

people that say they dont work cant do them

Skill set, it’s hard to develop anything other than basic bread and butter techniques when you have so much to train, Cung Lee did it because he was primarily dping stand up for years and did not need to learn the ground (probably the most time consuming area of MMA to train in). Modern fighters need to train the ground, clinch and stand up so they don’t have the luxury of developing anything other than high percentage moves

i im a very good kicker(and im not bragging so no one blow their top) and its not hard to develop your kicks or realy time consuming at all. the keys flexibility

Generally p*ss poor level of stand up fighting in the USA (which does not lend itself well to people learning and pulling off low percentage flashy stuff). Most fighters in MMA coming from the USA have very average stand up but are good at wrestling, and people tend to stay with what they know, hence the really good levels of stand up wrestling and ground grappling in the USA. In the UK it’s the other way around, lots of good Thai boxers etc but generally cra*p wrestling and ground work

actually i saw a cage rage dvd box set in britain recently and i thought the stand up was god awful much worse than anything in the states

i got so bored i didnt even bother to watch the other three dvds in the set

[Frost]

people that say they dont work cant do them

Well until you step in the ring/cage and show us them working we will just have to take your word for it its easy to say these things from behind a computer much harder to do, but of course you know better than the pro fighters

i im a very good kicker(and im not bragging so no one blow their top) and its not hard to develop your kicks or realy time consuming at all. the keys flexibility

Well until you step in the ring/cage and show us them working we will just have to take your word for it No one said its hard to develop them, its hard to develop the necessary timing to use them against someone who is looking to clinch, take you down or hit you with small gloves especially with all the other training you need to do, and if you are a stand up fighter the last thing you want to do is to start relying on techniques that present your opponent a change to take you down, you want to stick to techniques that make it hard for him

actually i saw a cage rage dvd box set in britain recently and i thought the stand up was god awful much worse than anything in the states

i got so bored i didnt even bother to watch the other three dvds in the set

Cage rage is low level, and MMA changes peoples fighting styles, doesn't change the fact that we have more thai gyms than you do, your guys go into wrestling ours into judo or Thai, there are more gyms and more guys fighting here and in Thailand etc

out of the 6 guys I know that have trained at my gym that have fought in the UFC/ or on the ultimate fighter only 1 has a grappling background the other 5 all had either Thai or full contact karate fights, and still fight and train in Thai

[goju]

Well until you step in the ring/cage and show us them working we will just have to take your word for it its easy to say these things from behind a computer much harder to do, but of course you know better than the pro fighters




Well until you step in the ring/cage and show us them working we will just have to take your word for it No one said its hard to develop them, its hard to develop the necessary timing to use them against someone who is looking to clinch, take you down or hit you with small gloves especially with all the other training you need to do, and if you are a stand up fighter the last thing you want to do is to start relying on techniques that present your opponent a change to take you down, you want to stick to techniques that make it hard for him



Cage rage is low level, and MMA changes peoples fighting styles, doesn't change the fact that we have more thai gyms than you do, your guys go into wrestling ours into judo or Thai, there are more gyms and more guys fighting here and in Thailand etc

out of the 6 guys I know that have trained at my gym that have fought in the UFC/ or on the ultimate fighter only 1 has a grappling background the other 5 all had either Thai or full contact karate fights, and still fight and train in Thai

no i dont know better than pro fighters im just not a guy with a few fights under his belt who thinks hes king kong

why? anderson silva, cung le, bones jones sakuraba, lyoto gsp and a few others have already shown they work me fighting wont prove anything new(though i would we heavy weight so perhaps that would be a bit different to see someone my size do them)


bones jones recently talked about his so called "flashy" techniques he uses and he stated that they arent hard to do or pull off you just have to train them alot and they become super easy to use

its simple the reason why they arent seen is one alot of coaches cant do them so what chances do the people learning from them have of preforming them

and two they dont stretch enough or ata ll in some cases

this doesnt just apply to mma but alot of martial arts as well i dont know how many tkd schools ive seen where the instructors or students cant kick to save their lives lol



so more gyms doesnt mean anything its quality vs quantity my friend

[Frost]

no i dont know better than pro fighters im just not a guy with a few fights under his belt who thinks hes king kong

why? anderson silva, cung le, bones jones sakuraba, lyoto gsp and a few others have already shown they work me fighting wont prove anything new(though i would we heavy weight so perhaps that would be a bit different to see someone my size do them)


bones jones recently talked about his so called "flashy" techniques he uses and he stated that they arent hard to do or pull off you just have to train them alot and they become super easy to use

its simple the reason why they arent seen is one alot of coaches cant do them so what chances do the people learning from them have of preforming them

and two they dont stretch enough or ata ll in some cases



this doesnt just apply to mma but alot of martial arts as well i dont know how many tkd schools ive seen where the instructors or students cant kick to save their lives lol



so more gyms doesnt mean anything its quality vs quantity my friend

Let’s wait until Jones fights a class fighter before using him as an example ok, and if you don’t see that he is a freak and an exceptional fighter then maybe you need to revaluate your thinking. Any way your point helps my case, if they need lots of training and can only be pulled off by the handful of guys you mentioned why bother with them?

I wouldn’t bother with the quantity quality argument here its silly, more guys from the UK fight at international level in Thai than the states, more guys from here go to Thailand to train and fight, more Thai’s came here to teach in the 1970’s so we have a longer tradition in it, why are you arguing, it would be like me arguing wrestling in not stronger in the USA, it’s a no brainer

Oh and You can’t say o they are no harder to learn or take no longer to develop than any other technique, then go quoting someone who says it takes a lot of training to do them easily, and then saying most coaches can’t teach them or do them properly.

Its either or…… either they are easy to do and don’t take much effort (in which case most teachers could teach them properly and more students would be good at them) … or they take lots of training to be able to pull off and they are difficult to teach properly, which one is it?

[goju]

oh lawd here we go again with the typical martial arts forum insult that he "never fought anybody"

lol i guess according to so many internet posters populating martial art forums no ones really ever really fought anyone

and of course then we have the freak of nature excuse as well
no jones is a just a great fighter who works his technique well and hard and didnt let some fool tell him it doesnt work

"I wouldn’t bother with the quantity quality argument here its silly, more guys from the UK fight at international level in Thai than the states, more guys from here go to Thailand to train and fight, more Thai’s came here to teach in the 1970’s so we have a longer tradition in it, why are you arguing, it would be like me arguing wrestling in not stronger in the USA, it’s a no brainer "

again so? for that you really dont see many uk guys coming over seas and wiping north americans out in mma or anything else


no my quote and what i said is not contradicting one another realisticallly you have ot train everything ALOT to be good at it

nothing comes easy no matter what technique it is if you want to be really good at it you have to work work work even with the simplest move

and my point still stands none of the guys who say those techniques work can do them

how can you say something doesnt work when

1. youve never learned them

2 you cant demonstrate them

alot of figthers have used kicks other than the round house successfully on numerous occasions so arguingthey dont work or are risky is bunk

also when i mentioned beinga heavy weigth kicker i forgot about the mowhawk sporting french man who accompanies gsp to the ring to fight hes a fantastic kicker for his size

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hey Goju, when are you going to compete?

[goju]

Hey Goju, when are you going to compete?

if i cant find a good gym in the mean time to do kickboxing matches ill have to do the sabaki unless i move beforehand to vancouver

though ive heard you have to have a black belt and be part of a gym or dojo to compete in the sabaki challenge?

lol i was never given any belt being that i learned from a relative


things in canada at least should fall into place for me i dont want to leave a legacy of just smacking around shaolin doh guys

[Frost]

if i cant find a good gym in the mean time to do kickboxing matches ill have to do the sabaki unless i move beforehand to vancouver

though ive heard you have to have a black belt and be part of a gym or dojo to compete in the sabaki challenge?

lol i was never given any belt being that i learned from a relative


things in canada at least should fall into place for me i dont want to leave a legacy of just smacking around shaolin doh guys

Why wait can't you find a kick boxing smoker or a local MMA event to fight in, is there nothing near you?

[goju]

Why wait can't you find a kick boxing smoker or a local MMA event to fight in, is there nothing near you?

need people to spar and train with since i left the gym and it went out of bidness im by myself

[Frost]

need people to spar and train with since i left the gym and it went out of bidness im by myself

is there no kickboxing, boxing, taekwondo or anything where you are? man that sucks

[goju]

is there no kickboxing, boxing, taekwondo or anything where you are? man that sucks

theres one karate dojo close by but it doesnt look very good at all lol

theres another school that is a bit of a travel away the owners a william de thouars student but from what ive seen from william de thouars online doesnt look very good at all so im already prepared to be dissapointed

if that scholl doesnt work out im sol

everything else is way the hell out there from me or if its close its a mcdojo

[Frost]

theres one karate dojo close by but it doesnt look very good at all lol

everything else is way the hell out there from me or if its close its a mcdojo

scr*w it, if its the best you can find go to the bad schools and train there, spar and beat all the cr*p fighters there up, at the very least you will keep your skills sharp whilst you look for somewhere better and you might come across guys in the same boat you can train with