The importance of fighting

[Ray Pina]

Not really missing my training as I nurse this busted hand, I've been training everything I've learned that I can train by myself. I want to say I realize everything is the same only done differently but it's not.

There are tremendous differences in attitudes and approach to defense. My karate style tends to take on a side stance countenance, purposely raising the front arm to invite attack to my ribs.... side kick waiting.

Wing Chun was very frontal and center oriented. I now hate its structure, very erect frontal attitude, but its understanding of controlling the center is great. I like its intercepting and trapping. Its weakness again, is structure. Bong Sau, positionally/structurally, is weak. You have no real stopping power with your shoulder like that (And I know it's a drilling motion intended to lift. But what when the other knows it and sinks, setting you up.... you have no position to lift, so you run the hand exposing yourself).

Internal was a way of doing all the things I've always done but smarter. More efficiently with better structure.

Boxing is bad ass. The technique is sound, but you have to be tough, because you're going to absorb blows. And you're going to stand there in range sooner or later. There's tremendous skill involved, but it is a game for the tough minded.


My point.... not sure. Just thinking about all the training and how as I grew and really thought about "How good is my martial art, meaning, comparatively" ... because I thought I was pretty good ... I wanted to go see. When you go see you start asking your instructor different questions. You don't ask, "How should my hand be?" ... "You ask, "Yea, but what if he does X?"

That bothers some teachers.... tough $hit. It's my pretty face I'm trying to protect.

Put your teachers on the spot. If they're good and cool they'll handle it well. If not, go find someone who's good and cool. I don't have access to that many here within reasonable travel distance (beat up surf truck). Man, train. Train. Train.

[TenTigers]

Wing Chun was very frontal and center oriented. I now hate its structure, very erect frontal attitude, but its understanding of controlling the center is great. I like its intercepting and trapping. Its weakness again, is structure. Bong Sau, positionally/structurally, is weak. You have no real stopping power with your shoulder like that (And I know it's a drilling motion intended to lift. But what when the other knows it and sinks, setting you up.... you have no position to lift, so you run the hand exposing yourself).

Ray-you don't seem to really have a knowledge or understanding of Wing Chun to make these statements. It really depends on where you learned your WCK from. Learning a few drills and playing chi-sao does not give you an understanding of the system.
ALL Wing Chun isn't always erect and frontal, in many schools, only when it is in toe to toe range. Look at Ali. Outside range he fought more side body, inside range he faced to be able to use both hands. Many boxers do this.

You may have learned your bong sao incorrectly, or have a misinterpetation of its use. Bong-Sao has different energies, and rising is but one of them. Bong sao can crash, Bong-sao can deflect. Bong-Sao can uproot, etc. Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, you should get out more. See other WCK instructors.

That is like someone saying, "the jab is only good for feeling an opponent out, and establishing range. I don't find it effective, so I've dropped it."
That is only one small use of a jab. Certainly not its only use.

Hey, I'm not saying you should start using bong-sao. I am sure it does not fit in with your own personal methodology and techniques as a fighter. We all choose our own arsenal. I don't like axe kicks. Sure, I've seen people dropped by them. I just don't feel comfortable with that tool.

"Internal was a way of doing all the things I've always done but smarter. More efficiently with better structure."

-Great Line-that's kinda the definition of internal. Actually, it's the definition of any art, when it's taught correctly.

[Dragonzbane76]

Hey, I'm not saying you should start using bong-sao. I am sure it does not fit in with your own personal methodology and techniques as a fighter. We all choose our own arsenal. I don't like axe kicks. Sure, I've seen people dropped by them. I just don't feel comfortable with that tool.

you know at least you say it without looking down upon someone. I've read through some of your posts and i don't agree with a lot of what you say but at least you say it in a manner that is not condesending.

[Lucas]

you know at least you say it without looking down upon someone. I've read through some of your posts and i don't agree with a lot of what you say but at least you say it in a manner that is not condesending.

Isnt it refreshing to see posts that critisize but in a well thought out non instulting and often in a constructive manner?

[Lokhopkuen]

Not really missing my training as I nurse this busted hand, I've been training everything I've learned that I can train by myself. I want to say I realize everything is the same only done differently but it's not.

There are tremendous differences in attitudes and approach to defense. My karate style tends to take on a side stance countenance, purposely raising the front arm to invite attack to my ribs.... side kick waiting.

Wing Chun was very frontal and center oriented. I now hate its structure, very erect frontal attitude, but its understanding of controlling the center is great. I like its intercepting and trapping. Its weakness again, is structure. Bong Sau, positionally/structurally, is weak. You have no real stopping power with your shoulder like that (And I know it's a drilling motion intended to lift. But what when the other knows it and sinks, setting you up.... you have no position to lift, so you run the hand exposing yourself).

Internal was a way of doing all the things I've always done but smarter. More efficiently with better structure.

Boxing is bad ass. The technique is sound, but you have to be tough, because you're going to absorb blows. And you're going to stand there in range sooner or later. There's tremendous skill involved, but it is a game for the tough minded.


My point.... not sure. Just thinking about all the training and how as I grew and really thought about "How good is my martial art, meaning, comparatively" ... because I thought I was pretty good ... I wanted to go see. When you go see you start asking your instructor different questions. You don't ask, "How should my hand be?" ... "You ask, "Yea, but what if he does X?"

That bothers some teachers.... tough $hit. It's my pretty face I'm trying to protect.

Put your teachers on the spot. If they're good and cool they'll handle it well. If not, go find someone who's good and cool. I don't have access to that many here within reasonable travel distance (beat up surf truck). Man, train. Train. Train.

I find words like "good" or "bad" comparatively to be emotional perspective and not a true meter of skill level. How you feel about it might start to have less personal emotional impact if you simplify your goals while training the fight. These days training for life encounters and fitness I begun to think more about constancy as opposed how good I think did or didn't do compared to whoever.

Sh!t today I'm nursing a middle finger that got sprained in a scuffle on the job last week and then i jacked it up again last night in a class rolling around getting out of a nasty rear naked choke that I foolishly got myself into. I ended getting him to tap instead of me

Currently I'm working harder experimenting & developing skill sets and testing what works or does not work as efficiently. When I am sparring with a mate or student I attempt to be consistent in my abilities to stop, block, redirect or neutralize attacks there-by taking less punishment and also using these defensives to engage for seizing, arresting and throwing.

In striking I attempt to consistently deliver strikes with accuracy and with a range of force that will give my opponent pause. If the opponent finds himself the object of fierce punishment every time he enters my sphere then just by positioning and body language I can control his movements by just making him feel he might get hit if he doesn't change position.

Truly the best way to learn to fight is to practice combative essences in a variety of scenarios that realistically expose the partitioner to conditions that are potentially more challenging than what they'd expect to experience in a real life or death situation.

Wanna learn to fight then fight a lot, fight smart.

My two cents.

[Ray Pina]

You may have learned your bong sao incorrectly, or have a misinterpetation of its use. Bong-Sao has different energies, and rising is but one of them. Bong sao can crash, Bong-sao can deflect. Bong-Sao can uproot, etc. Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, you should get out more. See other WCK instructors..

You know where I was introduced to Wing Chun. And through that instructor's brother I had access to play with Wing Chun guys from Chinatown. I also personally played with Emin Boztepe.... in my opinion, the structure of that movement is weak. Someone can use it successfully 1,000,000 times.... wrong structure is wrong structure.

I'll post video of my last kung fu tournament where I was disqualified from Chi Sau while standing on a box.

The referee, Norman CHin, kept stopping the action, saying what I was doing was not Wing Chun... he was right. But we were sticking hand and I kept being able to land my hands on a larger man. Then he said the shots wouldn't have power.... I was later disqualified from sparring for landing a similar technique to the same guys head.

I'm on deadline right now and want to surf. But I'll compile some footage and throw it on Youtube later this week when I have time.

This is the No. 1 lessons I've learned. Look at something honestly from all angles. If there is a problem, toss it out. Don't hold onto it. Keep the baby, throw out the dirty water.

I personally have found a way to exploit wing chun.... easily. Its just my style matches up well against that style. Now that's talking.

But I haven't seen ANY Wing CHun man utilize bong sau to the succesful level in real open play like countless boxers have the jab. The systems been around long enough. Probably millions of followers.

[MightyB]

Seriously-

I'm in this weird phase where I like to go to JiuJitsu on Monday's and Judo on Fridays just to roll a bit and call it a night. I'll bust out a form occasionally at home- but I really don't see the point. Just work out to keep in shape and roll. I'll even compete without any formal training ramp up. I win- I lose- I don't care. I find the rolling in Jiu Jitsu and Judo to be infinitely more fun than practicing KF solo. But- in the end, I'm pretty confident and comfortable with where I'm at in the martial arts and find that I care less about it. I like busting out sweet set ups and counters against someone--- that's really gratifying.

[Pork Chop]

Just thought this needed to be posted in this thread...

[Lucas]

gotta love top of the game mike tyson

[Lucas]

Seriously-

I'm in this weird phase where I like to go to JiuJitsu on Monday's and Judo on Fridays just to roll a bit and call it a night. I'll bust out a form occasionally at home- but I really don't see the point. Just work out to keep in shape and roll. I'll even compete without any formal training ramp up. I win- I lose- I don't care. I find the rolling in Jiu Jitsu and Judo to be infinitely more fun than practicing KF solo. But- in the end, I'm pretty confident and comfortable with where I'm at in the martial arts and find that I care less about it. I like busting out sweet set ups and counters against someone--- that's really gratifying.

ive been grappling with that myself or a while now. sometimes i ask myself 'why am i training?"

sure i like it. but whats REALLY the point? being able to fight? defend myself? stay in shape? sometimes i dont know anymore, but you just keep doing it...its been so long since ive had to actually defend myself (which has always been my primary reason to train, just knowing i can defend myself) that it feels hollow sometimes. like im training for no purpose.

i know it happens to a lot of people, question what their goals are and re-evaluate what they are doing and why...im hitting that decade mark in my training, which isnt a long time, but it feels like a milestone to me and i struggle with my momentum. compile that ontop of a crappy knee injury and its a fight all in its own.

/endrant

[Pork Chop]

Seriously-

I'm in this weird phase where I like to go to JiuJitsu on Monday's and Judo on Fridays just to roll a bit and call it a night. I'll bust out a form occasionally at home- but I really don't see the point. Just work out to keep in shape and roll. I'll even compete without any formal training ramp up. I win- I lose- I don't care. I find the rolling in Jiu Jitsu and Judo to be infinitely more fun than practicing KF solo. But- in the end, I'm pretty confident and comfortable with where I'm at in the martial arts and find that I care less about it. I like busting out sweet set ups and counters against someone--- that's really gratifying.

This may sound weird or lazy, but one of the reasons I've had such a hard time getting my act together for competition is that the more consecutive weeks I "ramp up" my training, the more stale & injury prone I get.

I've done some amazing sh!t my 2nd or 3rd workout back from a layoff that I'm not able to recreate after weeks or months of "sticking to a perfect schedule". Injuries always pile up real quick when i've been "staying on track"; I'm not even talking what we normally consider "overdoing it", merely maintaining a training schedule that most gyms will recommend.

Not sure if it's coz I'm getting old, if my rest is not good enough so i should reduce the volume, or if a lot of other guys are just on roids.

I would almost prefer to take a fight after only being back in the gym a few weeks, instead of following a "proper" ramped-up training program.

[Ray Pina]

In striking I attempt to consistently deliver strikes with accuracy and with a range of force that will give my opponent pause. If the opponent finds himself the object of fierce punishment every time he enters my sphere then just by positioning and body language I can control his movements by just making him feel he might get hit if he doesn't change position.
.

I love this.

[Ray Pina]

ive been grappling with that myself or a while now. sometimes i ask myself 'why am i training?"

Me too. Especially now that I'm injured and enjoying the good life of being able to hang out on week nights, surf until I'm exhausted because I don't have to go train.

I know I'm getting older too but I do still want to win one sanctioned MMA event. I'm in a chillin' stage right now. I'll see what happens.

[Ray Pina]

True about the injuries too. I busted my hand doing grip escapes drills.

Right before my fight, I was so exhausted and beat up from training two guys that have never tapped me, tapped me. They haven't tapped me since.

Just one of those things. Everyone is working hard. And when you're a competitive guy everybody comes for you, brings their A game.

[sanjuro_ronin]

.


In striking I attempt to consistently deliver strikes with accuracy and with a range of force that will give my opponent pause. If the opponent finds himself the object of fierce punishment every time he enters my sphere then just by positioning and body language I can control his movements by just making him feel he might get hit if he doesn't change position.

Truly the best way to learn to fight is to practice combative essences in a variety of scenarios that realistically expose the partitioner to conditions that are potentially more challenging than what they'd expect to experience in a real life or death situation.

Wanna learn to fight then fight a lot, fight smart.

My two cents.

Well said dude.
If your strikes can't compromise your opponents structure all you are doing if "sissy fighting".
Leave that to the WC and Kenpo guys.