Looking for a Good Book on WCK Application

[HumbleWCGuy]

My buddy is looking for a book that has a lot of good application material in it. Any suggestions?

[Hardwork108]

My buddy is looking for a book that has a lot of good application material in it. Any suggestions?

Hello,

Your friend may want to look into the following books:

1. Mastering Wing Chun, by Samuel Kwok, sub headed, "The Keys to Ip Man's Kung Fu". This book's text contains history; illustration of forms, applications and etc.

2. Chong Woo Kwan Wing Chun, by the late Master Joseph Cheng. Sub headed, "The Art of Simultaneous Defense and Attack. I am led to believe that Joseph Cheng was one of the few Wing Chun sifus of his time, who was the real deal, that is he had the internals!

I believee that his lineage was Mainland Chinese.

This book contains many illustrations of Wing Chun applications against various types of attack, including those from kickboxers and karate ka.

3. The Nucleus of The Wing Chun System, by Stephan T.K. Chan.

This book may be out of print. I have a big hard back copy. It has plenty of applications including ones against exponents of other styles.

4. Yuen Kay-San Wing Chun Kuen, by Rene Richie - who I believe posts on this site, or at least did in the past - sub headed, "History and Foundations".

Even though, as the title implies, this book covers history and principles, there are some interesting applications.

Your friend will just need to have a look and see which one, or more, of the books are more appealing to him.

HW108
PS. Master Robert Chu posts in this site as well and I believe that he has authored some books. Maybe he can recommend one of his books that would be relevant to what your friend wants.

HW108

[Yoshiyahu]

My buddy is looking for a book that has a lot of good application material in it. Any suggestions?

A good thing to do is purchased different Sifu books on the different forms...Usually at the end they have various applications...


Such as Ip Chun wing chun

Wing Chun Kung Fu: Traditional Chinese King Fu for Self-Defense and Health‎

In the back there are some applications of Sil Lim Tao


An Yip Man's book on the wooden dummy form has some applications in the back as well!

[Steeeve]

Randy William book....thats a encyclopedia of WC....like it or not....thats good work

[donbdc]

In response to Steeeve

The work and detail that went into the original six volumes in a pre computer age is amzing. The expalantion of theory and aplication along w/ step by step break down of the forms have not nor will they ever be matched by anyone!

Don Berry DC RKC

[Steeeve]

I agree Don
Randy is a encyclopedia of wing chun ...and a hard stylist of the style

[stonecrusher69]

I have all 6 volumes of R.W. Books. I'm thinking of selling them. There in good conditions if anyone interested PM ..

[donbdc]

What are you asking PM or donbdc@yahoo.com

Thanks

[t_niehoff]

My buddy is looking for a book that has a lot of good application material in it. Any suggestions?

My view is that WCK "application" can't be learned from a book -- just like you can't learn surfing "application" from a book. You learn to surf by being shown a few things and then hitting the waves. Sort of like chi sao (WCK with the training wheels on) -- you can't learn it from a book.

What is presented as "WCK application" in books, articles, and in classes is typically unrealistic (it won't work in fighting, particularly against anyone with good atributes or skills) or is low-percentage and high-risk. Unless a person has a significant amount of fighting experience (particularly with persons of good attributes and/or skills) they won't be able to appreciate that: a big problem is that nonfighters or persons without significant experience believe they have the ability to assess things pertaining to fighting. They can't, but they don't know they can't (unconscious incompetence). And this is why that stuff continues to get "passed on". Before you accept ANYTHING as valid, you should expect to see it actually used in fighting. If they can't or won't show it in fighting, then you know it's nonsense.

Keep in mind that when you practice unrealistic things, you aren't getting better but are actually getting worse -- you are now practicing to fail.

[donbdc]

My view is that WCK "application" can't be learned from a book -- just like you can't learn surfing "application" from a book. You learn to surf by being shown a few things and then hitting the waves. Sort of like chi sao (WCK with the training wheels on) -- you can't learn it from a book.

What is presented as "WCK application" in books, articles, and in classes is typically unrealistic (it won't work in fighting, particularly against anyone with good atributes or skills) or is low-percentage and high-risk. Unless a person has a significant amount of fighting experience (particularly with persons of good attributes and/or skills) they won't be able to appreciate that: a big problem is that nonfighters or persons without significant experience believe they have the ability to assess things pertaining to fighting. They can't, but they don't know they can't (unconscious incompetence). And this is why that stuff continues to get "passed on". Before you accept ANYTHING as valid, you should expect to see it actually used in fighting. If they can't or won't show it in fighting, then you know it's nonsense.

Keep in mind that when you practice unrealistic things, you aren't getting better but are actually getting worse -- you are now practicing to fail.

Hope the family is well and holidays are going smoothly. But I disagree %100 w/ you on this. You can learn from books and class and tie it together w/ sparring to make it happen. That is the purpse for drills, building muscle memory so you don't have to think b/c you wont have time to think w/ live action. You have to start some where. I am 49 yo, I have trained in multiple arts w/ multiple levels of people,over 30yrs. some very skilled. It does work, you have to work at it to make it work. Books are great reference some are better than others of course.
I think Logan College is having some event in 2010 I hope to grab some CEU's and finally get to meet you. We can share ideas and play around then.
Take Care and Merry Christmas
Don Berry DC RKC

[t_niehoff]

Hope the family is well and holidays are going smoothly. But I disagree %100 w/ you on this. You can learn from books and class and tie it together w/ sparring to make it happen. That is the purpse for drills, building muscle memory so you don't have to think b/c you wont have time to think w/ live action. You have to start some where. I am 49 yo, I have trained in multiple arts w/ multiple levels of people,over 30yrs. some very skilled. It does work, you have to work at it to make it work. Books are great reference some are better than others of course.

You are not alone in your views -- most WCK people would agree with you. The WCK curriculum, including the forms and drills, teach you the actions/movements of WCK but NOT how to apply those movements in fighting (since you are not doing them in a fighting context but in unrealistic forms or drills). The forms and drills do not represent what you can really do in fighting. You learn "application" (how to use your WCK) by and through application (by trying to use it). This is why almost any WCK person can do the forms and drills but can't use those same actions in fighting (at least not consistently).

You learn to box by boxing, not from a book. How many books on boxing do you think Tyson or Ali or etc. read?

I think Logan College is having some event in 2010 I hope to grab some CEU's and finally get to meet you. We can share ideas and play around then.
Take Care and Merry Christmas
Don Berry DC RKC

Great.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Sometimes WCK applications are put right in front of people, but for whatever?! reason
(pick one amoungst many)...they refuse to see them.

And sometimes others do see them.

Here's one that I see very clearly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TzQ36BGDM

[donbdc]

Terence,
Bruce Lee studied boxing via books and did, so have many fighters including Sugar Ray, who studied the Tao of JKD. You can learn from books but you have to put them down and apply. The same w/ a drill, drill it drill it drill it then take away the rules and test it. Every MA i have ever seen does this even BJJ!
My advice to originator of the thread get the book and make up your own mind.

Peace
Don Berry DC RKC

[t_niehoff]

Sometimes WCK applications are put right in front of people, but for whatever?! reason
(pick one amoungst many)...they refuse to see them.

And sometimes others do see them.

Here's one that I see very clearly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TzQ36BGDM

Victor, that isn't application. You've just highlighted the problem -- people mistake techniques (practicing techniques) for application. Application is sparring (or, more accurately, what you are doing in sparring).

[punchdrunk]

heh, not many Wing Chun people ever apply their studies, so they are really intellectually bound and are confused on even the most basic points. I have never found a good book on martial applications, but I have read more than a few on history and theory. Applications are better learnt through experience, but books can give real general or basic techniques that you can experiment with and apply in your training. Bruce Lee's many books about training can give you ideas to play with (not pure Wing Chun). That's what got me started in Wing Chun and away from sport karate as a youth. Applying the centerline theory, in karate sparring made me see the value of Wing Chun principles before I ever learned even a single Wing Chun technique. When I had the chance to train in Wing Chun I jumped at it.