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Thread: 18 Lor hon gung/18 respitory attainments

  1. #1

    18 Lor hon gung/18 respitory attainments

    Anyone know of any vids out there that show and explain? Having a hard time find much info on this chi gung exercise. Any help would be great.
    Last edited by Emeraldphoenix; 12-24-2009 at 07:08 AM.
    Everybody has a plan, Til they get hit.

  2. #2
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    Su had some out http://www.pachitanglang.com/home/

    Also for anything like that there really is only one source: www.plumpub.com
    Tell them Jake sent you

    Cheers
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  3. #3
    Thanks Jake, I see he has 18 lou hans. Do you know if this is the 18 respiratory attainments that are Practiced within the mantis styles. Some say this is guarded info, but i'm beginning to think that it's a lost tech. within the mantis systems. I've heard it's no longer practical for today. It's too long and or boring. Or it was so seceritive that is has been lost. Drawings are available. But I'm not good enough to figure out actual movements let alone the breathing that goes along with the exercises. Does anyone actualy practise within their schools. That ? is for anyone. THANKS Jake.
    Everybody has a plan, Til they get hit.

  4. #4
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    I am not sure how "pure" any of it is. I never learned the 18 lohan from Wutan. So I cannot really comment on it.
    Be careful believing the "secret's" or "guarded" techniques/sets/theories etc. There are no secrets. Secret is hard work and discipline!

    All depends on your intent and goals within the martial arts brother.
    Cheers
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  5. #5
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    Emeraldpheonix,
    Yep, plumbpub are great folks! I buy books and VCD/DVDs there all the time. The book offered is the NPM version.
    You can also find vids on YouTube for the set.
    Richard

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldphoenix View Post
    Thanks Jake, I see he has 18 lou hans. Do you know if this is the 18 respiratory attainments that are Practiced within the mantis styles. Some say this is guarded info, but i'm beginning to think that it's a lost tech. within the mantis systems. I've heard it's no longer practical for today. It's too long and or boring. Or it was so seceritive that is has been lost. Drawings are available. But I'm not good enough to figure out actual movements let alone the breathing that goes along with the exercises. Does anyone actualy practise within their schools. That ? is for anyone. THANKS Jake.

    Emeraldphoenix,

    The Lor Hon Gung is still practiced and taught.

    I have had the opportunity to have studied it as passed down through two different Mantis lines. Both were taught differently. In my opinion, it is very practical especially if one is interested and has the discipline for training the Internal.

    Choose the teacher wisely.

    Unfortunately there are many self proclaimed Mantis teachers out there that started to teach when they only knew two or three forms at the time. Due to their lack of knowledge many of these teachers supplemented their limited curriculum with material from other styles, books, vids, etc…. Some how along the way they managed to exchange information, ideas and forms with other teachers and practitioners and as a result have been able to muster several handfuls of sets and multiple, yet eclectic, theories which have become the basis of the curriculum that is in use in their current schools. But then, the curriculum often assumes the nature of being a morass due to the inconclusive foundation on which this added material has been piled upon.

    Using a book or video for research can be a very useful tool in one’s personal studies.

    Teaching from a book or video is a completely different scenario and one that often becomes a tragic experience for some of the students of these charlatans. All too often these so called teachers will prop themselves up in the forums on the Internet as being very knowledgeable teachers or even masters. I am often amused as I watch some of these self proclaimed teachers try to accumulate a high number of posts on forums in the vain hope of increasing their status. Their vanity provides some of us with much entertainment and laughter.

    Once again, choose your teacher wisely and then stay with them. Hard work and sincere respect could eventually provide you with opportunities that are not offered to many others.

    Best wishes.

  7. #7
    Jake, I cant stand when someone tells me the old story of seceret master on seceret mountain teaches seceret to only those that bring seceret charm. Thanks ALL and have Merry holiday
    Everybody has a plan, Til they get hit.

  8. #8
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    EP
    Yeah, once the appeal of the mysticism wears off, and one begins to really question certain aspects of an art, the truth is what settles at the bottom. Some choose to dive into the truth and explore it, often at the expense of their ego. Others choose to leave the truth alone and continue on with certain fantasy realms. To each their own I suppose. I personally am always looking for the truth, and I am leery of those who have "found" it

    Happy Chrishanakuanzmis everybody!

    JAB
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  9. #9
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Luk Hop View Post
    Emeraldphoenix,

    The Lor Hon Gung is still practiced and taught.

    I have had the opportunity to have studied it as passed down through two different Mantis lines. Both were taught differently. In my opinion, it is very practical especially if one is interested and has the discipline for training the Internal.

    Choose the teacher wisely.

    Unfortunately there are many self proclaimed Mantis teachers out there that started to teach when they only knew two or three forms at the time. Due to their lack of knowledge many of these teachers supplemented their limited curriculum with material from other styles, books, vids, etc…. Some how along the way they managed to exchange information, ideas and forms with other teachers and practitioners and as a result have been able to muster several handfuls of sets and multiple, yet eclectic, theories which have become the basis of the curriculum that is in use in their current schools. But then, the curriculum often assumes the nature of being a morass due to the inconclusive foundation on which this added material has been piled upon.

    Using a book or video for research can be a very useful tool in one’s personal studies.

    Teaching from a book or video is a completely different scenario and one that often becomes a tragic experience for some of the students of these charlatans. All too often these so called teachers will prop themselves up in the forums on the Internet as being very knowledgeable teachers or even masters. I am often amused as I watch some of these self proclaimed teachers try to accumulate a high number of posts on forums in the vain hope of increasing their status. Their vanity provides some of us with much entertainment and laughter.

    Once again, choose your teacher wisely and then stay with them. Hard work and sincere respect could eventually provide you with opportunities that are not offered to many others.

    Best wishes.
    Good points and observations.

    Mantis108
    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    對敵交手歌訣

    凡立勢不可站定。凡交手須是要走。千着萬着﹐走為上着﹐進為高着﹐閃賺騰挪為
    妙着。


    CCK TCPM in Yellowknife

    TJPM Forum

  10. #10
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    First off, I believe the translation 18 respiratory attainments is off because it implies something is resulted of mainly physical effort. The meaning of Qi can't simply be encompassed by respiratory function. I have no time or interest in arguing what Qi is or is not. But I will leave couple of thoughts with you.

    Traditionally, Qi and Li (Strength and/or power) are presented as a whole. They are proportional to each other. More Qi equals more strength/power. At the same time Qi is generally understood as the "source" of Li. So there is a "ontological" question involved if you are into the philosophical argument which I am not going to dwell upon here.

    So bear in mind that Qigong in martial arts point of view is not practiced as a stand alone exercise but rather a "warm up" for strength training and for form training as well as practical application. In fact, traditional Qigong as a "Gong" in Kung Fu has strength training as its counter part (ie push ups, hand stands, etc). In some sense, Qigong serves as a foundation for Kung Fu practice. This is the reason why a good set of Qigong is often regarded as the most important and even sacred to the system and styles of Kung Fu.

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to you all.

    Mantis108
    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    對敵交手歌訣

    凡立勢不可站定。凡交手須是要走。千着萬着﹐走為上着﹐進為高着﹐閃賺騰挪為
    妙着。


    CCK TCPM in Yellowknife

    TJPM Forum

  11. #11
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    I was taught that, Sahp Baht Luo Han Gung is Hei Gung not Chi Gung so, in this case Chi-Gung is a generic term.

    It is also call outer-inner skill.

    Our School Teaches it using the reverse-breathing method.
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    Last edited by seung ga faat; 04-29-2011 at 01:36 AM.

  12. #12

    18 Lo Han Chi Gung

    I have studied the 18 Lo Han and for the last year I have been doing some research on the benefits and correlation with modern sports performance training. When I was younger I had little interest in this but now that I am older, I am finding that it is of huge benefit. There is one video that has a version of the complete 18 Lo Han as taught in the mantis system. It is not done with the same intent as I was taught but it is a version. You can find it on line as "18 Buddha Hands" by larry Johnson. I think he is a Tai Ji guy as he does it all soft.

  13. #13
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    Hi Everyone,

    Lohan gung is very interesting. when I first leant it from LKW it was just called lohan gung but now everyone seems to call it lohan Chi Gung.

    Othal which line does your lohan come from and did you learn it with reverse breathing.

    I leanrt it with regular breathing but having been shown reverse breathing by someone else it seems natural with some of the lohan moves.

    Also anyone got thoughts on Master Su version compared to WHF or LKW version as they are very different?

    Paul
    www.moifa.co.uk

  14. #14

    Tony

    That is where i am at. Getting older now, and looking for a good set of exercise. Figured i would look into the 18 lor hon. Thanks for all the imput. And if anyone is able to compare SU's,WHF, or LKW's version I would really like to hear the imput on that subject.
    Everybody has a plan, Til they get hit.

  15. #15
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    Luohan Gung is termed xing gung. Qi Gung is a modern word coined after the creation of Luohan Gung.

    The following comes from the oldest body of Mantis Boxing material on training our body.

    Three Transmissions for the Method of Gung
    The first gung is to accumulate strength. Cultivate the qi and perfect the spirit. This is the Luohan's accomplishment on the path of achievement.
    Accomplishment can be attained after one hundred days of practice.


    In other words, a Luohan must acquire strength (like Mantis 108 mentions), cultivate qi and perfect the spirit. Spirit can also be defined as your vitality.

    The next two transmissions deal with training on the bag and training the martial techniques. So this song describes in a nutshell the three things a person needs to attain success as a martial warrior.

    Furthermore, in another book purported to be written by Sheng Xiao Dao Ren he also makes a description of these methods of training the qi, strength and vitality.

    This is the summary of the yin and yang of gung fu. When the gung is complete and the strength attained mastery is accomplished. After mastery one can oppose 10,000 men.

    Using this gung is no children's game. It requires the training of qi and the stabilizing of one's essence for 100 days in order for water and fire to mutually aid and for yin and yang to correspond. Then you can attain the bravery of 10,000 men.

    Otherwise, to train the qi without stabilizing jing or stabilizing jing without refining qi unbalances water and fire and puts yin and yang out of harmony.

    In such a situation your limitless gung fu becomes useless in the end.


    Notice that these texts exhort us to train our gung and stabilize our jing.
    Water and fire aiding each other refers to the functions of heart and kidney working together. Water and fire is a phrase of Taoist alchemy and a classification of yin and yang. Water can be said to represent the kidneys while fire represents the heart. So mutual aiding of water and fire is also known as interacting of heart and kidney.

    Mutually Aiding


    Kidneys are the chief yin organ. The kidneys control and aid the fire of the heart. Since fire also affects the water attributes of the kidneys they are often said to be mutually aiding.

    Mutually aiding water and fire as well as harmonizing yin and yang refer to our mind, qi and essence as well as our kidney and heart.

    Mutual aiding of water and fire means the heart and kidneys aid and balance each other. For the average person this is a way to say that a healthy mind and body is a balanced mind and body.

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