White Tiger Kung Fu ?

[TAO YIN]

Can you help me work with the world as a whole?

However many million years on this earth, and still no utopia? What Gives?

Zeno was right! We are illogical!

[Kpower]

When I was young I fell into the dianetics/scientology trap. I was living with my mom and partying all the time. I had got into drugs fairly heavily and I was headed down a path of self destruction. I was looking for a way to change my life and I thought I had found it through dianetics. Since I was poor ( a big no-no for scientologists) I had to join staff in the church in order to take part in the courses, training and counseling.

Ultimately I failed as a scientologist because of a lack of self discipline. I had some problems with the way things were being run and I never liked the more culty aspects of it. I did learn one valuable thing from them that has carried with me to this day. Scientologists strive to "Be at Cause" which basically means using intention to the point of conforming reality to your will. They have a saying "Make it go right". This means that you should achieve your goals at any cost. They do not accept excuses and they will not coddle anyone.

I had never really had drive before, I was a classic underachiever. I had no real goals in life. I thought I would be dead by 30 anyway and I probably would have if I had kept going the way I was. I was made the director of public contact. It was my job to recruit new people basically. Raw meat they call them. I was forced to get over my shyness and talk to people, many of whom were openly hostile. I had to formulate goals and plans and work within a limited budget to implement them. I was given responsibility for the first time in my life and I found that if I wanted something I really could make it happen.

That is about the only good thing that came from scientology.

If I had had money it would have been a different path entirely. It costs on average $380,000 to get to the top of scientology counseling. Those with money are treated like royalty, that is until the money runs out.

If you cannot make it go right then there is something wrong with you and you need to get it fixed. If you cannot come up with the money then you are not making it go right. You are a degraded being and treated as a second class citizen. It is a rather harsh religion in a lot of ways. They believe that anything bad that ever happens to you is the result of your own actions. You might get cancer because in a past life you did something really despicable like posting images of scantily clad women on message boards.

I worked 80 hours a week for 2 years. 9am to 11pm with an hour travel each way. Our salary was based on gross income (donations for counseling/training) for the week. Calculated after the bills were paid and after money was sent to headquarters. I think I averaged 25 or less a week. Many times my pay envelope only held change. Meanwhile a single hour of counseling costs 1200 dollars.

As a part of joining staff I was required to sign a contract for 3 years that stated that if I quit before 3 years was up I would have to pay them for evey course or counseling session at the "donation" rate. After all the work I did for them for two years they sent me a bill for 18,000 dollars. Most of the training on there was trainging that they required me to do in order to do my job. The scientology elite staff members are called sea org members and they sign a contract for 1,000,000,000 years. Thats 1 billion years you saw that right.

They get a flat rate of 50 dollars a week. I actually envied them that. They work 80 to 100 hours a week. They are issued uniforms many of which do not fit most of the rest of their money is spent on toiltetries. They bring foriegners to the us and confiscate their passports so they cannot leave. They routinely sign up 12 year olds to the sea org and they are not given a break because they are young either. In scientology everyone is considered to be trillions of years old and your body age has no relevance. When i was in the sea org people who got married and pregnant had to leave the main organizations and go to local churches because they could not be fully productive and give their jobs 200%. After I left they seem to have figured out they were losing good people this way so they started coercing women to have abortions instead.

Sorry to go on about this but since I had a role in recruiting people to what I now consider to be an evil organization, I feel better when I tell the truth about them and possibly discourage someone from joining.

[Hardwork108]

If you think I take what people say about THEMSELVES as "gospel", then you really have no idea about how things work in authentic MA.

I know how things work authentic TCMAs and I don't see owning a kick boxing gym as a high level credential. Why do you?

[Hardwork108]

If this post is a reference to me or for those who have turned it into a reference to me, then......

I think the MO here is simply "polarize against anything requiring critical analysis and independent thought of one's own actions."

Please (anyone) give an example of this!

People behave this way either because they are susceptible to brainwashing, or feeling so totally helpless and impotent in their lives that they need to defend their beliefs and acquired habits.

Wrong. Truth be told, on one level I couldn't care less because a lot of TCMA methodologies have to be experienced in order to be understood and the chances of that happening to an average Joe is not so high and the chances diminish even more when talking about a lot of the "full glassed" externalists MMA/Cross trainers here.

On another level, this being a KUNG FU forum, one feels the need to put one's perspective (based on one's own authentic TCMA experience) forward. That is when problems begin because many self proclaimed forum gods (with "decades of experience", apparently) take exception to being informed of TCMA methodologies that they are clueless about.

Conclusion? "There must be something wrong with the messenger". LOL
Very intelligent!

Of course, the more outlandish and unbalanced a belief is, the more effort people put into protecting it and seeking approval/acceptance for it.

Can you or anyone who has seen this post as a reference to me, please provide an example of any "outlandish" claim that I have made recently? Surely, you are not referring to the Chow Gar methodology of building strength and power without the use of Western style or Olympic () weight training methodology (or use of weights in general)?

If so, then my statements stand and the rest of you should work on your Internal TCMA education!

I find this very sad, because it's not the person's fault per se: it's more that they've been fed a poor diet of life experiences (either naively or on purpose,) and have become habituated to it.

Or even perhaps they have experienced a TCMA methodology that some people are clueless about?

I hope that everyone who suffers from the delusions of chronic emotional, irrational thought will eventually find the right sage for them.

I believe they have already, the sage is called Ken Shamrock or even Royson Gracie. Take your pick. LOL!

[Hardwork108]

Correct and hence my "change of heart" about a certain someone.
I truly feel pity for them, they actually think what they believe is true and authentic.
To each their own.
Having worked with religious cults and people trying to bring people out of them, I understand the issues.
You get to a point that you are so dilusional and brainwashed that you refuse to see the truth because of a "inner protection" mechanisim that keeps you from realizing how much of your life you have thrown away.
People prefer to "stay put", it is far easier and requires less courage than facing the truth and making the changes.

If you need any help in getting people out of the MMA/Cross training cult, that religiously believe that no TCMA works unless it is cross trained, then please PM me and I will fly to Canada to help you de-program them and stop them from posting incesantly in KUNG FU forums!

[Hardwork108]

oh thats nasty, when you start to feel that much pitty for someone they must really need help

Either that or it is Sanjuro who needs the help for not being able to handle interaction with people who show him to be rather lacking in knowledge regarding certain TCMA practices.

I believe that it is very pompous of you guys to assume that someone who tells you of TCMA approaches that you are clueless about, must be delusional or "cultish".

Actually, all of you who have jumped on this "bandwagon" come across as rather insecure as well as being (TCMA)clueless!

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Please (anyone) give an example of this!

See quote below.

Wrong. Truth be told, on one level I couldn't care less because a lot of TCMA methodologies have to be experienced in order to be understood and the chances of that happening to an average Joe is not so high and the chances diminish even more when talking about a lot of the "full glassed" externalists MMA/Cross trainers here.

Ok, so you're denying the brainwashing, and while I admire your resolve, that's some heavy contempt you have going there, though. I think the following helps us understand it:

On another level, this being a KUNG FU forum, one feels the need to put one's perspective (based on one's own authentic TCMA experience) forward.

Look at these two descriptions:
1. KUNG FU forum
2. Kung fu FORUM

They're similar, but there's a distinct difference in perception between the two. What would your "needs" be on a KUNG FU forum vs. a Kung Fu FORUM? Using theory of mind and your experience, which of the two descriptions do you think most forum members use?

That is when problems begin because many self proclaimed forum gods (with "decades of experience", apparently) take exception to being informed of TCMA methodologies that they are clueless about.

I agree, self-proclaimed forum gods feel a constant need to put their perspective (based on their own authentic TCMA experience) forward. What's more, they take exception to being informed of anything beyond their TCMA methodologies, and treat with contempt those who are not in agreement with them. Which begs the question, why do they feel the need to be forum gods? Is there something lacking in their lives?

Conclusion? "There must be something wrong with the messenger". LOL
Very intelligent!

This happens because of a lack of courage to face the truths that critical thought and independent analysis would reveal.

Can you or anyone who has seen this post as a reference to me, please provide an example of any "outlandish" claim that I have made recently? Surely, you are not referring to the Chow Gar methodology of building strength and power without the use of Western style or Olympic () weight training methodology (or use of weights in general)?

I have nothing to say about your methodological claims - of which, in over 1,000 posts, you have not discussed in any detail, citing sworn secrecy as the reason. Do what you want in that regard. Maybe one day I'll have the honor of testing the fruits of your labors, maybe not. In the meantime, the term "outlandish claim" will refer to claims which are not backed by, at the very least, contemporary example or critical thought.

Or even perhaps they have experienced a TCMA methodology that some people are clueless about?

I have experienced many things that you are clueless about. Does this mean I should treat you with contempt whenever you attempt to discuss my experiences from your perspective?

I believe they have already, the sage is called Ken Shamrock or even Royson Gracie. Take your pick. LOL!

Your subconscious has never shouted at you more loudly than in the quote above.

[Hardwork108]

See quote below.

I did see the quote below, but unfortunately you are "seeing" a different quote to me.

Ok, so you're denying the brainwashing, and while I admire your resolve, that's some heavy contempt you have going there, though. I think the following helps us understand it:

No one brainwashed me. So please get over it!

The fact is that one trains in a certain way and sees the training working. Then one discusses the benefits of one's training (for example, without weights) and then one is met by ridicule, mainly, by a bunch of Jack of All Trades, cross trainers and a few "kung fu" guys who believe that they know everything there is to know about kung fu (in a world where many actual kung fu masters, in their late 60s or even 70s, will tell you that they are still learning)!

There is one poster here, who will remain nameless, who even said once that he doubted that there was anything in kung fu that would surprise him anymore. That was because he had trained under some real deal masters. I wonder if the masters under whom he trained, were of the same opinion?

:Look at these two descriptions:
1. KUNG FU forum
2. Kung fu FORUM

They're similar, but there's a distinct difference in perception between the two. What would your "needs" be on a KUNG FU forum vs. a Kung Fu FORUM?

which ever you look at it is your business. However, authentic kung fu practitioners will see it as a KUNG FU forum.

Using theory of mind and your experience, which of the two descriptions do you think most forum members use?

NEITHER!!!
Unfortunately, "most members" use a third description, which is, MMA/Cross Training Forum.

Most members are clueless about authentic kung fu practice. See the Mcdojo phenomenom. If you think that this forum is immune from this then good luck to you!

I agree, self-proclaimed forum gods feel a constant need to put their perspective (based on their own authentic TCMA experience) forward.

You are flattering them, as most of them would not know authentic kung fu if it fell on their heads!

Unfortunately when it comes to the Forum Gods here, it is usually a question of how much better their Mcdojo "kung fu" training has been in relation to other forum gods. LOL!

What's more, they take exception to being informed of anything beyond their TCMA methodologies, and treat with contempt those who are not in agreement with them.

Wrong. The Forum Gods here are anything but TCMA-ists. They see TCMA methodologies that they are unaware of or do not understand, as useless or irrelevant. They turn almost every TCMA discusssion into an MMA one - understandable, in view of the fact that their TCMA cups are nothing but empty!
One wonders why they even post in a KUNG FU forum. Cult-like behavior, perhaps?

Which begs the question, why do they feel the need to be forum gods? Is there something lacking in their lives?

Why ask me? You better ask the likes of Sanjuro ronin, Frost, Lkfmdc(under his various forum guises), Knifefighter, Terrence Niehoff and many others here.

I am a kung fu student and I consider myself a beginner. I am not a Forum God!

This happens because of a lack of courage to face the truths that critical thought and independent analysis would reveal.

You mean the lack of courage to face the fact that I did not know about a certain Internal TCMA strength and power development methodology and because of that fact I cluelessly ridiculed the person who talked about this practice by putting down internal practice in general; personal insults; by questioning the person's Olympic weight lifting credentials () and by losing my temper and F-ing, right, left and center??????

Hey, wait a minute, that was not me, it was you guys!!!!LOL

have nothing to say about your methodological claims

Of course you don't!

You are unfamiliar with those methodologies. Nothing wrong with that either. TCMAs constitute a vast area of knowledge. We are lucky if we can understand and practice a small part of that.

- of which, in over 1,000 posts, you have not discussed in any detail, citing sworn secrecy as the reason.

Those of us who practice authentic kung fu cannot discuss everything on the World Wide Web. People like TenTigers appreciate that fact and I hope that you will as well, one day.....

Maybe one day I'll have the honor of testing the fruits of your labors, maybe not. In the meantime, the term "outlandish claim" will refer to claims which are not backed by, at the very least, contemporary example or critical thought.

Your "critical" TCMA thinking is based on your knowledge and hence it is limited by it. You need to think outside the box and by the way, no one is talking magic chi powers and flying over mountains. The methodology in question exists but it is not discussed with outsiders.

I have experienced many things that you are clueless about. Does this mean I should treat you with contempt whenever you attempt to discuss my experiences from your perspective?

First of all I do not treat you with contempt and I will try not to if you stop playing psychologist and making clueless assumptions about my character. Furthermore, you seem to be a TCMA-ists posting in a KUNG FU forum. So what is the problem?

As far as you knowing things that I am clueless about then I have no problems with that. As I stated before, the TCMAs are a vast area of study. I do not expect to know everything about them in this lifetime. So, again you knowing things that I don't know is natural, as well as expected, and it does not bother me at the least.

However, and unfortunately, your ego(s) don't accept the fact that I know and practice methodologies that you are totally unaware of. Hence our current discussion, including your theories of my psychological motivations; my "cult-like" behavior and so on. LOL.....

Your insecurities and egos are very transparent and are reflected in your own cult-like behavior whenever your combined TCMA "status" is challenged.

Your subconscious has never shouted at you more loudly than in the quote above.

Sort out your fragile ego my friend and your kung fu will get much better. :

[Frost]

Either that or it is Sanjuro who needs the help for not being able to handle interaction with people who show him to be rather lacking in knowledge regarding certain TCMA practices.

I believe that it is very pompous of you guys to assume that someone who tells you of TCMA approaches that you are clueless about, must be delusional or "cultish".

Actually, all of you who have jumped on this "bandwagon" come across as rather insecure as well as being (TCMA)clueless!

actually you have never told us about TCMA's appraches, you have hinted you know these things but when asked won't go into details or tell us where you learned them so what knowledge you have or have not is open for debate

[Frost]

Why ask me? You better ask the likes of Sanjuro ronin, Frost, Lkfmdc(under his various forum guises), Knifefighter, Terrence Niehoff and many others here.





You mean the lack of courage to face the fact that I did not know about a certain Internal TCMA strength and power development methodology and because of that fact I cluelessly ridiculed the person who talked about this practice by putting down internal practice in general; personal insults; by questioning the person's Olympic weight lifting credentials ()[ and by losing my temper and F-ing, right, left and center??????

Hey, wait a minute, that was not me, it was you guys!!!!LOL



Sort out your fragile ego my friend and your kung fu will get much better. :

Oh it was you… you jumped into a conversation we were having with another forum member where we were simply pointing out he was wrong in the way he viewed weight lifting, no one said anything about his chow gar training, we commented on the fact his views on weight lifting were outdated wrong and silly…. then you started insulting everyone in sight because we did not agree with you and asked what experience you had in weight lifting to back up the comments your were making…..then it turned into a p*ssing contest with you calling everyone clueless and having no experience in true TCMA training… then being awfully quiet when asked what your background was…….

[goju]

This thread is funny. the worst thing that ever happened to me while i was locked up was sharing our cell with a bak fu guy. he kept trying imitate bruce lee, and once asked me at a 4 a.m. count if CLF could beat Bak Fu.......so i turned and Fu Jowed his throat holding it there, all of his neck meat in my hand, asking what his bak fu is going to do now!!!! LMAO

Funnee funnee!!!

lol what the hell?

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you need any help in getting people out of the MMA/Cross training cult, that religiously believe that no TCMA works unless it is cross trained, then please PM me and I will fly to Canada to help you de-program them and stop them from posting incesantly in KUNG FU forums!

You will always be welcome in my neck of the woods.
Then we can see how your authentic Kung fu stacks up to my "knucklehead kickboxing".
Let me know when you'll be by.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kpower,
Your experience with scientology is very typical of cult of that fashion.
Most people are far more succeptebale to cult influence then they realize.
Circular reasoning, submital to authority figures, acceptance of things without proof, and such, are things that we have all been brought up to be "ok" with it.
We all wanna be special and cults know that and play on those insecurities.
Yes, you are special, just like everyone else.
LOL !

MA cults are far less visible than religious cults and as such, they don't get the press that they deserve.
But the history of MA ( in all areas) is rife with cults and cultish behaviour.
It is something that must be addressed.
Even in my time in kyokushin I was exposed to the "ultimate truth" cult, just as I had before and was later to be re-exposed to, the TCMA cult.

I have always had a "ronin" personality so I was never "taken in" and would typiclaly laugh off most of that stuff.
It was only later when, for personal reasons, I was exposed to the religious cult(s) that I became far more aware of the dangers that they truly represent and how easily people can be take in by them.

[David Jamieson]

The Daimoku or mantra (Nam-myoho-renge-kyo) purpose is to attain enlightenment and is not regarded as a form of magic as all phenomenon are illusion according to the very sutra being referred to. Which is the Lotus Sutra, which is also regarded as the culmination of all of Shakyamuni Buddhas teachings and is highly revered especially in Japanese Buddhism.

Nichiren Buddhism especially uses this mantra.

Of course, there are many who profess themselves to be buddhists, but are merely going through the motions. Same as any other religion really.

[Hardwork108]

Oh it was you… you jumped into a conversation we were having with another forum member where we were simply pointing out he was wrong in the way he viewed weight lifting,

You "pointed out" by ridiculing him in regards to a methodology none of you were familiar with!!!!

no one said anything about his chow gar training,

By "pointing out" that he was "wrong" in the way that you guys did, you did nothing but, by extension, insult his Chow Gar training.

we commented on the fact his views on weight lifting were outdated wrong and silly….

Yes and he got those views from being exposed to AUTHENTIC Chow Gar training, something that none of you have any experience in......

then you started insulting everyone in sight because we did not agree with you

If you go back to that particular thread you will see that my first post there was addressed to the Chow Gar practitioner(David) and not any of you. Then you guys took an exception to my views on the subject and started to make posts to enlighten me on the benefits of weight lifting, even the Olympic variety.....LOL

You would not let go even when I made it clear that I was fully aware that certain types of weightlifting were used in TCMAs for centuries....LOL

and asked what experience you had in weight lifting to back up the comments your were making…..

My experience is in kung fu and not weight lifting. If I want to increase my kung fu striking power, I ask a kung fu master and not a weight training coach!!!!

Some of you guys just don't see the woods for the trees!

[

then it turned into a p*ssing contest with you calling everyone clueless and having no experience in true TCMA training…

Even though most people posting here do not have any experience in true TCMA training - it is called the Mcdojo phenomenon and it was not invented by me - the real fact was that none of you had trained Chow Gar and hence were not familiar with the lesser known methodologies of that style.

So, you decided that if you were not aware of a certain practice then it was not valid; it did not exist; it was fantasy, etc. Taking into account your overall cluelessness regarding authentic kung fu practices, you guys are really pompous!!

then being awfully quiet when asked what your background was…….

My background is in kung fu. I have enough background to know that there are TCMA methodologies that do not use weight training exerecises to gain their strength and power, including the Chow Gar shock power.

Giving any more details about my background on the World Wide Web is meaningless specially when those who are asking the questions are clueless to the actual methodology in question and are asking questions, NOT because they are really interested, but because they are attempting to "interrogate" the person who dared to show them for the clueless (at least in regards this particular methodology) lot that they are!

As far as more details regarding the particular methodology itself is concerned then as I said before these things are kept away from the public arena and with good reason, I might add.

HW108