White Tiger Kung Fu ?

[Asmo]

Ghees people, does literally every thread on here has to turn out in a crapfest? I've seen such good threads turns to waste over and over again.

[Hardwork108]

Part1

you mean like the people who combine various training methods, discuss the benefits they've had, and are met with contempt and ridicule?

I discuss the benefits of TCMA a training on a KUNG FU forum!!!

The people who combine various methods should go and discuss the benefits of those methods on an MMA or Cross Training board and not a Kung Fu one.

There are even MMA/Cross Training/Sports MA threads here.

Also, you seem to have missed the ridicule these people hand out to ACTUAL kung fu practitioners. Many have been literally chased away from these boards!

Look at the poster David who first brought up the Chow Gar strength building methodology. See how he was treated!!!

Have you seen him post recently?

Yes, it is easy to have a selective morality!

The context of that "quote" you post revolved as much around charlatanry in Kung Fu not being surprising anymore as around true skill in Kung Fu not being surprising anymore. I think the masters under whom he trained would have shared similar views. I don't know, though, and neither do you, so it's all conjecture.

It is unclear for me the point that you are attempting to make above. However, my original point stands. There actual kung fu masters who do not claim to know everything regarding the TCMAs. That should humble many of the internet cross training warriors who have trained "kung fu" among a dozen other MAs for apparently "decades"!

So again, no one can assume that they know all there is to know about the TCMAs and then feel insulted when someone mentions a methodology that they are unfamiliar with!!!

...meaning anyone who sees it otherwise is not an authentic Kung Fu practitioner, eh?

Actually, I should correct myself and say that authentic kung fu practitioners would like to see it as a KUNG FU forum, because if they wanted to discuss the benefits of BJJ and MT, they could do that in any of the many MMA forums on the net, or even in the particular boards designated for that sort of thing here in the kung fu forums.

First, I do not think that this forum is not immune to such things. If it was, we would not be having this conversation.

And no we wouldn't.

Second, your contemptuous behavior towards those who disagree with you is not only transparent; it is also very repetitive, dull and unoriginal.

First of all there are many who disagree with me with whom I can still discuss matters.

Secondly, contemptuous is too strong a word, IMHO. I can be kind of tongue in cheek. Of course, sometimes, I reflect the negativity back at he culprits and I guess if you are intellectually on their side then you will "forget" their contribution to the negativity.

So, what should new students look for when they're deciding on an "authentic kung fu" teacher or

New students don't know so they should ask those who know!
They should look for their answers perhaps in a KUNG FU forum. However, I have seen many of them being directed to their local BJJ clubs; or advised to cross train from day one; or advised to look for a school that spars from day one......

So those are who ask...those who don't ask will be reading these forums for genuine kung fu information and will see that apparently Olympic weight training is a recommended supplement to internal kung fu practice.

Or they will see comments from people with "impressive" profiles about how bad Wing Chun is or have Aniimal styles are useless because "we are humans and should fight like humans and not animals" or other "enlightening" information.

They might even see comments from insistant posters that all kung fu is fantasy and in order for it to be effective it has to be changed/modernized/cross trained.

SEE WHAT I AM GETTING AT?

Personally speaking, it would be very difficult to just tell a newbie what to look for. I would first start by telling them what not to look for. These will include:
1. The instructor bragging about the number of competition medals his school has won, from word go.

2. If he is made to spar from day one.

3. If his instructor claims to have invented an improved and "functional" style of kung fu.

4. If he is told that this is a purely external school of TCMA or that the Internals don't exist.

The list can go on.......

That is a good example of contempt and ridicule. BTW, that kind of behavior is recognized internationally as having roots in insecurity and impotence;

Again, I was just talking facts there and reflecting some of their comments back at themselves, where IMHO, they are more applicable.

You really are reading too much into my posts. That could be more a reflexion of your own inner self than anything to do with what I say.....

the resulting behaviors revolve around wanting to feel powerful, potent, and superior (hence the use of contempt through ridicule and name-calling to belittle others.) This kind of behavior is very damaging to social relationships, and whatever power/superiority is gained through these means is temporary at best. It's the little man's feel-good tool, basically, No matter who uses it.

You have just described every single person who attacked the poster David and then me, because their fragile egos could not swallow the fact inspite of their "Decades" of whatever MA experience, they were totally clueless about that particular Chow Gar training methodology!!

Now I ask you why should they feel that way? The TCMAs are a vast field of study and there are many, many things that none of us don't have a clue about. So why do these guys and apparently you take it so hard? Because I don't! Is it your egos? Of course, it is!

So, why don't you confront your ego, yes the same one that made you come out F-ing at me left, right and center, in another thread, when you wrongly thought that I was rubbing in the fact that you were unfamiliar with the particular Chow Gar methodology. That would be much better than displacing your problems on me and so called "ego".

This seems to torment you to no end, seeing as how you speak incessantly of how YOU think the forum and its members should be... hey, hope springs eternal, right?

So you think I am "tormented"because of what I consider to be my beginner status in kung fu?

I am not. I am in it for the long hole and I accept that. What peezes me off, is the fact that there are so many Kung fu-clueless posters here who pass themselves off as authorities but who cannot discuss a single aspect of kung fu without turning a whole thread into an MMA/Cross training discussion.

Again, if I want to discuss MMA then I will go to the MMA threads....so I would like the privilege of discussing authentic TCMAs in the Kung fu threads. However, most discussions in kung fu threads end up as "how great MMA/BJJ/Cross training is for you" threads. And this is usually done by people here whose combined authentic TCMA experience and understanding would not add up to a small sack of fertilizer!

What would you say about me if I invaded the MMA threads here and started preaching TCMA methodologies? No doubt you would be making the same assumptions that you are now!!!!

...says the member who complains about the lack of kung fu discussion on the forum.

I believe that discussing the kung fu basics are beyond most people who post here. So let us leave the more "obscure" stuff for later.....

[Hardwork108]

Part 2

Real secrets don't get labeled as secrets.

I did not label anything as secret to start with. However, when I was asked to discuss in detail the methodology in question I refused and that is when I made it clear that this stuff is not discussed on the World Wide Web and or with outsiders. Ten Tigers seems to have a better understanding of this concept then you do!

I did however, give enough info for those who practice this methodology to recognize it and I was really curious to see if anyone would, but unfortunately nobody did.....

The info was also enough to "open a door of enquiry" in the minds of those who are familiar enough with the internals and who can comprehend the value of such training, to go on to search for more.

In fact, there are no secrets. The stuff that gets labeled as secret is really poser marketing sh1t designed to fill the rice bowl and divert attention from the real stuff.

There are secrets in kung fu. If anyone has told you that there no secrets then he was doing so because he was clueless or he was hiding those same secrets.

Looks like someone in your lineage did a good job.

Now who is being contemptuous?

There is a universe of kung fu training out there that you are unaware of. There are closed door schools out in the Far East that don't even teach none Chinese students? Why should they not teach none Chinese if you can go to any neighborhood in any Western country and find kung fu schools that teach anyone who walks out of the street?

When you say that there are no secrets in kung fu, you do so to imply that you know what there is to know. So perhaps you are implying that there are no secrets as far as you are concerned? But then we both know that this is not true, don't we?

That is not quite what I meant by outlandish either (although I am glad that you don't believe you can fly.) See my paragraph above.

Oh, I see. What you meant by outlandish was me daring to imply that I knew of a TCMA training methodology that you were clueless about.

You seem to think that your TCMA experience excludes you from being surprised by any kung fu methodology that you may be totally unaware of. I assure you that there is more where that particular Chow Gar methodology came from!!!

"I have been around the block a few times, if anything like that existed, surely I would have known about it!" Watch that ego of yours, my friend.

Likewise, and good luck.

And good luck to you in your quest for "NEW"kung fu knowledge ( and there is a lot out there).

[Frost]

You "pointed out" by ridiculing him in regards to a methodology none of you were familiar with!!!!

So lets get this right you are saying we were wrong to say he was wrong because we don't know chow gars methods... so was he (and by extention you wrong) for riduculing those of us who do know about weightlifting when neither of you to have any experioence in that fuield......HW108

By "pointing out" that he was "wrong" in the way that you guys did, you did nothing but, by extension, insult his Chow Gar training.

How the feck is saying he is clueless about modern weight training methods insulting his chow gar training, please explain that to me......HW108

Yes and he got those views from being exposed to AUTHENTIC Chow Gar training, something that none of you have any experience in......

can you do me a favour, please show where anyone in that thread mentioned chow gar training, some of us said his knowledge of weight training (like yours) is a joke, and I said that in my experience you could get a lot of the power generation etc that I got from training kung fu from weight training please show me where I said anything about chow gar, or any other southern mantis system...HW108

If you go back to that particular thread you will see that my first post there was addressed to the Chow Gar practitioner(David) and not any of you. Then you guys took an exception to my views on the subject and started to make posts to enlighten me on the benefits of weight lifting, even the Olympic variety.....LOL

Enlightening you is just pointless we simply tried to point out you have no knowledge in weight training that was allHW108

You would not let go even when I made it clear that I was fully aware that certain types of weightlifting were used in TCMAs for centuries....LOL


My experience is in kung fu and not weight lifting. If I want to increase my kung fu striking power, I ask a kung fu master and not a weight training coach!!!!

Some of you guys just don't see the woods for the trees!

[
Even though most people posting here do not have any experience in true TCMA training - it is called the Mcdojo phenomenon and it was not invented by me - the real fact was that none of you had trained Chow Gar and hence were not familiar with the lesser known methodologies of that style.

So, you decided that if you were not aware of a certain practice then it was not valid; it did not exist; it was fantasy, etc. Taking into account your overall cluelessness regarding authentic kung fu practices, you guys are really pompous!!

Again please show me where I said anything about chow gar, I said his views on what weight training would do to you were plain wrong, where did I mention chow garHW108

My background is in kung fu. I have enough background to know that there are TCMA methodologies that do not use weight training exerecises to gain their strength and power, including the Chow Gar shock power.

Giving any more details about my background on the World Wide Web is meaningless specially when those who are asking the questions are clueless to the actual methodology in question and are asking questions, NOT because they are really interested, but because they are attempting to "interrogate" the person who dared to show them for the clueless (at least in regards this particular methodology) lot that they are!

As far as more details regarding the particular methodology itself is concerned then as I said before these things are kept away from the public arena and with good reason, I might add.

HW108

So you can’t share your back ground or the mythologies you hint at, makes me wonder why you are on this site

[Dale Dugas]

he is a mouthboxer.

thats all he can do.

[uki]

he is a mouthboxer.

he has some heavy hitting words.

[David Jamieson]

he has some heavy hitting words.

typical of first year wing chun students.

especially those who think Larping is a secret way of learning the almighty god fist! lol

[Kpower]

ghees people, does literally every thread on here has to turn out in a crapfest? I've seen such good threads turns to waste over and over again.

qft........

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ghees people, does literally every thread on here has to turn out in a crapfest? I've seen such good threads turns to waste over and over again.

Asmo, you are correct.
HOWEVER, under THIS circumstance it is directly relevant to THIS thread.
See, HW8 is exemplifying all thatis wrong with TCMA and the cultish mindset that can come with it when one loses the ability to be critical.
The white tiger system has no verifiable lineage, which is irrelevant to the skill of the people doing it, BUT it was made an issue the moment that the GM SAID it had one of 100's of years.
Of course he backs that up by saying that it was a "secret" system so NOTHING can be verified.
This is where people with common sense AND those with many years of experience in TMA begin to say, "Hmmm, really?"
And this is where those that are dilusional and watch too much shaw brothers movies think, " where can I find this uber-deadly, uber-secret kung fu that only the selected few can train in?"
See the sales pitch?

[TAO YIN]

Sanjuro,

Why pick and choose what one can be critical about then?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sanjuro,

Why pick and choose what one can be critical about then?

Not sure what you mean....
We should be critical of everything, even more so when experience shows it to be, well, "debatable" at best.

[Hardwork108]

So lets get this right you are saying we were wrong to say he was wrong because we don't know chow gars methods... so was he (and by extention you wrong) for riduculing those of us who do know about weightlifting when neither of you to have any experioence in that fuield......

The difference is that we were talking about the relevance of CHOW GAR training methods in regards the particular requirements of Chow Gar kung fu and the results it it aims to achieve.

Whereas you lot were saying that we must have been missing something for not using modern weight training methods. You lot were and clueless about Chow Gar strength building methodology!

How the feck is saying he is clueless about modern weight training methods insulting his chow gar training, please explain that to me.....

Let's put it this way. He was saying that modern weight training was not needed for Chow Gar strength and power development. You guys were saying that he is the one missing something something for not using modern weight training methods. You guys were and are blind as bats regarding the Chow Gar strength building methodology.

You took a general attitude of ridicule towards him and later on with myself, when I entered the thread and backed David's view.

can you do me a favour, please show where anyone in that thread mentioned chow gar training, some of us said his knowledge of weight training (like yours) is a joke, and I said that in my experience you could get a lot of the power generation etc that I got from training kung fu from weight training please show me where I said anything about chow gar, or any other southern mantis system.

Again, he tried to explain, based on his knowledge of Chow Gar, that there were other ways for strength and power development. You guys based on your knowledge of modern weight training, but absolute zero knowledge of Chow Gar, ridiculed him and then even asked me about my weight training qualifications.

You missed the point. No one is criticizing weight training per se, it is just that there are TCMA training methodologies (Internal) that do not use weights as primary means of power development. This fact seems to have escaped all of you and still does!

If you have been exposed to such methodologies and have seen them work, and then you go on to mention such methodologies and then you are required to show your weight training qualifications for daring to say that there are other methodologies that do not require them by people who are totally clueless about the given Internal approach, then you make your assumptions.

Enlightening you is just pointless we simply tried to point out you have no knowledge in weight training that was all

And I was only trying to enlighten you guys to your cluelessness in regards certain Internal TCMA power building approaches. That was, by the way, related to the subject matter of the thread which was not about Olympic weight lifting...LOL

Again please show me where I said anything about chow gar, I said his views on what weight training would do to you were plain wrong, where did I mention chow gar

His views and mine are based on our experience of CHOW GAR. You saying that we use that given methodology to build power and strength in preference to modern methods reflects a lack of weight training knowledge. Then that is maing ignorant comments, because, as much as you know about weight training, you (and others apparently) were clueless to the methodology that was used in instead of your modern approach.

That is like saying, "Hey, I have never practiced Chow Gar (or any Internal kung fu) but if you are not using weight training to build your power and strength then you are wrong. That insults the practitioner and his chosen TCMA methodology!!!

Of course, there were others in that thread that just came out and said that Internals in general were fantasies and did not exist. No doubt they had not come across such an approach when they were cross training their Mcdojo kung fu with Tae Kwon Do...LOL!

So you can’t share your back ground or the mythologies you hint at, makes me wonder why you are on this site

There you go again. Wasn't that a reference to Chow Gar or were you subconsciously thinking about BJJ...LOL.

Of course, you are referring to the Chow Gar methodologies that you are clueless about, as "mythologies". Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! LOL

And again. My background and the details of that particular style will not help you as you are totally clueless about Chow Gar and hence you have no point of reference. If you were a Chow Gar sifu then I may have revealed more through the PM, but then if you were a Chow Gar sifu, you would know what I was talking about to start with....LOL!

[Hardwork108]

especially those who think Larping is a secret way of learning the almighty god fist! lol

I saw you larping in the other thread when you jumped on some poor newbie's first post. He had made some very sensible comments but you just couldn't help yourself, you just had to intimidate him....

[Hardwork108]

See, HW8 is exemplifying all thatis wrong with TCMA and the cultish mindset that can come with it when one loses the ability to be critical.

Actually, that is unfair, because I have been very critical of you guys who don't actually train the TCMAs in a deep manner.

This is where people with common sense AND those with many years of experience in TMA begin to say, "Hmmm, really?"

I know that you are implying yourself in the above sentence but I am very glad that you used the term "TMA" and not "TCMA". LOL

And this is where those that are dilusional and watch too much shaw brothers movies think, " where can I find this uber-deadly, uber-secret kung fu that only the selected few can train in?"
See the sales pitch?

Well, I certainly did not talk about the "uber-deadly, uber-secret kung fu" that only a selected few can train in.

Of course, I did say that certain methodologies are not discussed publicly with outsiders and I did make a reference to certain TCMA schools in the Far East that do not accept none-Chinese students, but that is a fact and it is known by those who actually train authentic TCMAs. [You will know that for yourself if you one day find an authentic TCMA school to train in].

So why exaggerate and make slanderous comments towards me?

[sanjuro_ronin]

So why exaggerate and make slanderous comments towards me?

There was on exaggeration or slander.
You have NO IDEA of the so called authentic TCMA that you love to nutride and that is clear to pretty much anyone who has been around TCMA for even a limited number of years.
What was your WC lineage again?