White Tiger Kung Fu ?

[chusauli]

Tai gihk yahn,

You know Chan Tai Shan was my Sifu, too? He taught me much of his Lama, spear, staff, some CLF, and Bak Mei, and principles of Nam Kuen. I laughed at his funny stories and antics.

He even forced me to speak Toishan. Yuck!

He was old school. Yee Sifu wanted me to round out my Hung Kuen wih his long hand training. He stretched me out and forced me to do his long hand art - in the process, it opened up my chest.

I miss the old guy.

[taai gihk yahn]

Tai gihk yahn,

You know Chan Tai Shan was my Sifu, too? He taught me much of his Lama, spear, staff, some CLF, and Bak Mei, and principles of Nam Kuen. I laughed at his funny stories and antics.

He even forced me to speak Toishan. Yuck!

He was old school. Yee Sifu wanted me to round out my Hung Kuen wih his long hand training. He stretched me out and forced me to do his long hand art - in the process, it opened up my chest.

I miss the old guy.

LOL Robert - between Chan and Sat, we seem to have been dovetailing sifus for decades! next thing you'll tell me you studied w/B.P. Chan as well...

yeah, CTS was a character, for sure...

what years were you with him? I spent about 5 years w/him, from about '88 to 93; I did a lot of Hung fist w/him, as well as a good amount CLF and Lama; there was a lot of down time included, like diving him around in my old clunker of a Mustang - he used to put his hand on the gear shift when we were on the highway doing 80 - I had to keep telling him not to do that...

here's a scenario you can get a kick out of: Sat Hon translating pages of rambling letters to me that Chan Tai San had mailed to me over the years, but that no Chinese person would ever translate for some reason......Sat was like (in his refined, Princetonian classical Chinese scholar affect), "here, he's promising to teach you the whole style...here he says never to come to Chinatown again if you value your life...and here he says someone named Dave / Gus / Mike / Steve (etc.) owes him money...";

btw, one of my CTS hing dai lives in LA, btw, he got a pretty good cross section of material, and used to teach as well; he definitely knows his stuff, he's always looking for peeps to hang w/ - I'd be happy to put you both in touch if you like; he's a good guy, he's actually an animator, used to work for Disney, now draws for American Dad (it's a living...)

[lkfmdc]

Sat Hon translating pages of rambling letters to me that Chan Tai San had mailed to me over the years, but that no Chinese person would ever translate for some reason......Sat was like (in his refined, Princetonian classical Chinese scholar affect), "here, he's promising to teach you the whole style...here he says never to come to Chinatown again if you value your life...and here he says someone named Dave / Gus / Mike / Steve (etc.) owes him money...";

I had a very similar experience with a surgeon from China who was a good friend of my father's. He came to my father and suggested I cut off all relations with this person, noting that every other paragraph began with "according to the rules of the underworld". That was two months after I met CTS

[CFT]

"underworld" as in "hell" or "gong wu"/jianghu (martial world)?

[taai gihk yahn]

"underworld" as in "hell" or "gong wu"/jianghu (martial world)?

there's a difference?

[Dale Dugas]

Nope.

Chris is spot on with his response.

[chusauli]

LOL Robert - between Chan and Sat, we seem to have been dovetailing sifus for decades! next thing you'll tell me you studied w/B.P. Chan as well...

btw, one of my CTS hing dai lives in LA, btw, he got a pretty good cross section of material, and used to teach as well; he definitely knows his stuff, he's always looking for peeps to hang w/ - I'd be happy to put you both in touch if you like; he's a good guy, he's actually an animator, used to work for Disney, now draws for American Dad (it's a living...)

I studied with Chan Tai Shan when he first came to the USA (1984? 1985?) until I moved to Los Angeles in 1988. He taught us Dai Lo Han Kuen, and a few other fancy sets, then went a while to Canada and came back. As for me, these days I just keep the minimum of Chan's teachings - I barely remember his plethora of sets, although I recorded them in notes. Fu Hoc Cern Doe, Siu Lo Han and Dai Lo Han, I remember the most. Chan Sifu, IMO, made stuff up on the spot. I would think he customized his CLF and combination Lama/Bak Hoc/Hop Ga to the student...not really having set forms. He basically had themes of Chuen, Pao, Kup and the Lama seeds. After I understood, basically, you made permutations and combinations, or matrices with these movements. From there, all the forms dissolved. The same was with his Ba Gua pole and Ba Gua spear.

To Chan Sifu, Ging was Gung Fu and Gung Fu was Ging.

He was also quite a country bumpkin...but loveably ignorant and funny! His butchering of Cantonese and his native Hoisan dialect often left me confused...at times we were ducks and chickens talking.

If your Si Hing wants to get together, just give him my contact info. I'm in LA Chinatown Fridays at my school from 7 - 9 pm.

[Hardwork108]

it's simple - he called BS when he saw it, and as such he burst the bubble of a lot of the so-called "old guard" guys who had been stringing along American students for years under the misapprehension that they were the real deal; CTS was like,

Funnily enough, the sifus that I have interacted with were/are of similar dispositions. Their traditional approach does not stop them from calling the BS for what it is, including those who teach "BS", under the banner of Traditional kung fu.



"

you guys are students of my training brothers and their students, don't get in my face, lol";
so he got us over the whole "being in awe just because someone is old and Chinese" bit - we learned to critically evaluate a lot of material, to tell good from bad pretty quickly and reliably - we were fortunate that he spoke his mind, and was as quick to compliment quality as he was to point out crap

His vast knowledge and no nonsense approach to teaching (and life, it seems), must have been a great combination for any student of his.

as for secrets, sure, there was stuff I am pretty certain he didn't talk about in regards to qigong - not to me at least, and maybe not to anyone, who knows; he obviously had Iron Body / Head and Palm skills; but I think he would have shown it to anyone who would have applied themselves seriously to learning it - he was basically a "I'll meet you where you are at" kind of guy - which is why those of us who stuck it out got what we got and those who showed up w/attitude got increasingly "bad" stuff as they went along (meaning he'd start by giving anyone benefit of the doubt, and then scaled back as their ignorance became more apparent...);

HIs approach is similar to one sifu I know. The other sifus with whom I have interacted with would not even accept students who were not serious. IMHO, both approaches are valid.

he also thought boxing, judo, etc. were all good things to learn and know; he did not consider any sort of good MA to be irrelevant, it was al potentially useful to him;

I am of the same opinion. No use denying that either of those can be useful MAs. However, I would not practice any of those if I had access to good kung fu training, but then that is just me.

lol, on the first page or so of this thread
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...t=chan+tai+san
Ross says exactly that!

Very, interesting thread and thank you very much. I spent more than an hour (maybe two) reading through the thread but still did not finish it.

it may even give you a different perspective on Ross!

Well, it showed that Ross is a good writer.

Otherwise, my perspective of Ross is the same as before.


Thanks again for the link. I will try and read some more of CTS stories tonight.

HW108

[sanjuro_ronin]

Funnily enough, the sifus that I have interacted with were/are of similar dispositions. Their traditional approach does not stop them from calling the BS for what it is, including those who teach "BS", under the banner of Traditional kung fu.



"
His vast knowledge and no nonsense approach to teaching (and life, it seems), must have been a great combination for any student of his.



HIs approach is similar to one sifu I know. The other sifus with whom I have interacted with would not even accept students who were not serious. IMHO, both approaches are valid.



I am of the same opinion. No use denying that either of those can be useful MAs. However, I would not practice any of those if I had access to good kung fu training, but then that is just me.



Very, interesting thread and thank you very much. I spent more than an hour (maybe two) reading through the thread but still did not finish it.


Well, it showed that Ross is a good writer.

Otherwise, my perspective of Ross is the same as before. Ross is NOT his teacher.Furthermore, I do not take kindly to people making unprovoked attacks (even in internet forums) by spreading lies about me to discredit my traditional approach vs (Ross's'kung fu' tagged) kick boxing/MMA approach.

Dragging my Wing Chun sifu's name into his lies and deceptions did not win him points with me either. Of course, we also need to "thank" Sanjuro ronin for that as well, who as you may rememeber invented other lies about me and things that I have supposed to have claimed, and was the first one to drag my sifu's name into this forum.! Yes, insecurity does make people act in immoral ways!

This is rather a strange and insecure behavior by someone who refers to himself as "sifu" (and another who claims decades of MA experience, implying at least some expertise)!

I believe that you would at least agree with me that most people here, including the ones who don't like me, have not sank to the levels of Dave Ross and Sanjuro.

Thanks again for the link. I will try and read some more of CTS stories tonight.

HW108

There you go again with the personal attacks with NO provocation or justification.
Dude, you really need to get a life, seriously.
I will give you the chance to edit out the BS yourself or I will do it for you.

[David Jamieson]

There's always gonna be a slew of slow to understand folks who think that having kungfu, practicing traditional kungfu or being a teacher of kungfu makes you something more than simply human.

These people are by their nature, slow to understand and they are the ones who may or may never understand the true nature of their own being.

So long as they believe in their hearts and minds that there are secret powers to be had by humans if only they practice "x" long enough, there will be these slower to understand folks hanging about on the fringes of any line fo study be it religious, occult, martial or other esotericism.

People who tout "there are higher levels" or" there are secrets that only specials get" or something else, are generally ill educated and out of touch. Usually quite youthful too seeing as a lack of life experience marries quite well to this flavour of willful ignorance.

so, i wouldn't worry too much about that ilk, they got their own head games to deal with and would like very much for anyone with years on them to validate their school boy errors.

accept your humanity first. always question anything that is put before you and remain silent when you are receiving a lesson.

If you talk over the teacher, you gain nothing. If you refuse to listen you gain nothing, if you seek only validation fo what you thought in the first place instead of deconstruction to help you understand, again, you learn nothing.

Net result is this, some people know nothing, other people do know something.

It's pretty easy to spot the difference, especially in the moments of protestation. lol

just pointing it out.

I don't think there are many here who benefit from this place and instead seek to validate their own masturbation for the most part. Incomplete minds.

Me, I"m here for the shit throwing contests that have been going on for some years now.

new crop of turds every month drifting in to cause troubles because they have something they think is better. (truly, if they really thought so they wouldn't be here trying to get validation)

[TAO YIN]

derailed **** throwing has begun...

[sanjuro_ronin]

derailed **** throwing has begun...

Not on my watch.

[Hardwork108]

There's always gonna be a slew of slow to understand folks who think that having kungfu, practicing traditional kungfu or being a teacher of kungfu makes you something more than simply human.

These people are by their nature, slow to understand and they are the ones who may or may never understand the true nature of their own being.

So long as they believe in their hearts and minds that there are secret powers to be had by humans if only they practice "x" long enough, there will be these slower to understand folks hanging about on the fringes of any line fo study be it religious, occult, martial or other esotericism.

People who tout "there are higher levels" or" there are secrets that only specials get" or something else, are generally ill educated and out of touch. Usually quite youthful too seeing as a lack of life experience marries quite well to this flavour of willful ignorance.

so, i wouldn't worry too much about that ilk, they got their own head games to deal with and would like very much for anyone with years on them to validate their school boy errors.

accept your humanity first. always question anything that is put before you and remain silent when you are receiving a lesson.

If you talk over the teacher, you gain nothing. If you refuse to listen you gain nothing, if you seek only validation fo what you thought in the first place instead of deconstruction to help you understand, again, you learn nothing.

Net result is this, some people know nothing, other people do know something.

It's pretty easy to spot the difference, especially in the moments of protestation. lol

just pointing it out.

I don't think there are many here who benefit from this place and instead seek to validate their own masturbation for the most part. Incomplete minds.

Me, I"m here for the shit throwing contests that have been going on for some years now.

new crop of turds every month drifting in to cause troubles because they have something they think is better. (truly, if they really thought so they wouldn't be here trying to get validation)

Nobody is talking about magic powers; nobody is talking about "secrets" even though they exist in kung fu. CTS himself kept thing to himself.

Nobody is talking about higher levels, even though they exist in kung fu. They may be found by studying the higher levels of the Internals.

You just missed the point of that post which was interaction between myself and Taai Gihk Yahn, by the way.

All your attitude comes from your "gang" or "group" mentality. Of course, you lacking knowledge about some basic TCMA facts does not help your case much, either.

[Hardwork108]

derailed **** throwing has begun...

No derail here. My post was on subject and it was a reply to Taai Gihk Yahn regarding points that he and I are discussing.

[Hardwork108]

There you go again with the personal attacks with NO provocation or justification.
Dude, you really need to get a life, seriously.
I will give you the chance to edit out the BS yourself or I will do it for you.

Did you or did you not FALSELY claim that I had said that my sifu had beaten a Gracie in a fight? Did you or did you not make other slanderous claims regarding my character using my sifu as a vehicle? [Before you became a moderator].

If you were just joking then it was not funny!!!!!!