Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 80

Thread: Endangered Species in TCM

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    FORT WORTH, TX
    Posts
    45

    Unhappy Tigers

    Just watched a report on TV about an animal sanctuary here in the DFW area. They take in large cats. I know there are several in this area. They had a beautiful young tiger cub they had just received. It had been declawed. The operator of course explained that these animals could never be returned to the wild. And declawing tigers like domestic cats causes a deformity to the foot, not to mention a loss of self protection and climbing ability. This also causes the earlier on set of artheritis in their feet. We need to protect them when and where we can.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,230
    I do not use endangered species in my formulas.

    I use Horse or Pig Bone in lieu of Tiger Bone.

    You want to use the calcium matrix that is in the bone.

    No need to use rhino horn or most of the other endangered forms when you have herbs that do similar actions.
    Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
    Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    local
    Posts
    4,200
    interesting topic... on an energetic level, the species is highly influential of the outcome of the remedy... think about it - a regular alley cat bone or a tiger bone?? i'll take the tiger bone please... not saying i do and i sure don't agree with big tough manly wanna be tough ****nuts who have to shoot tigers for sport, but species is and always will be highly relevant to the outcome of the treatment.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,044

    Odd article

    This interview started with one topic and went to another, but I'm happy as to where it went. At least I could post it here.
    College of Traditional Chinese Medicine celebrates 30th anniversary
    By: John Upton
    April 8, 2010

    Lixin Huang, president of the San Francisco-based American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine, will help host a 30th anniversary gala at War Memorial on April 18, beginning at 2 p.m.

    What is ACTCM? It's a graduate school that trains students to become licensed practitioners in acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine.

    How many students are enrolled? We currently have a student body of 280. For a master's degree, the program costs about $55,000.

    Is Chinese medicine popular in San Francisco? Yes — I would say not only in San Francisco, but in the U.S. Forty-three states have passed legislation for the practice of acupuncture and herbal medicine. ACTCM has a community clinic where we see 20,000 to 30,000 patient visits per year.

    In the Year of the Tiger, how is ACTCM helping wild tigers? ACTCM has been working with the World Wildlife Fund, Save the Tiger Fund and Animals Asia Foundation to launch a campaign of not supporting any use of tiger products in traditional Chinese medicine.

    How are tigers used in Chinese medicine? Chinese medicine used tiger bones for over 1,000 years. In 1993, the Chinese government completely banned the use of tiger bones in medicine.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,044

    Two Chinese busted in Russia

    Two Chinese tiger smugglers nabbed in the act
    Apr 15, 2010 15:32 Moscow Time

    Two Chinese citizens have been arrested in the Russian Maritime region as they attempted to smuggle the skins and bones of three Amur tigers into China, RIA News reports. Border guards had to fire warning shots to stop the smugglers. Almost every body part of a tiger is used in traditional Chinese medicine. The Amur tiger has been put on the Red List of Endangered Species. So far, just about 500 animals are still left. In China, the killing of a tiger is punishable by a death sentence.
    The situation with Amur Tigers was already an issue during the last year of the tiger, 1998. That was a large part of the focus of my article on Jackie Chan saving tigers back in the 1998 NOV DEC issue of World of Martial Arts.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,044

    Last Javan Rhino

    Ultra-Rare, Perhaps the Last Remaining, Javan Rhino Found Killed in Vietnam
    by Matthew McDermott, New York, NY on 05.10.10

    The total estimated population of the Javan rhinoceros in Vietnam was perhaps eight individuals just three years ago. Now WWF reports that there is one less of the beyond critically endangered rhinos in the Cat Tien National Park, with one found dead late last week, its horn removed by poachers.

    Local people reported finding a large dead mammal to park officials at the end of April, with the body confirmed to be a Javan rhino after a search of the area was conducted. Though not yet confirmed, WWF speculates that this could be the last Javan rhino left in Vietnam.

    As WWF points out, rhino poaching hit a 15-year high in 2009, with rhino horn being more valuable by weight than gold. The prime cause of the increasing demand is use of the horns in Traditional Chinese Medicine--despite the fact that the horns have been removed from the official pharmacopeia.

    There are no Javan rhinos in captivity, with the largest remaining population (estimated at less than 60 individuals) being on the island of Java itself. Historic range (as indicated on the map above) of the Javan rhino extended throughout Java and Sumatra in Indonesia, up through Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam, as well as to the northwest through Burma and into the easternmost part of India and Bangladesh.
    There's vid if you click the link.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    981
    That's it!. All the deities and priests around the world should spread the "Curse of the Rhino" has now been thrown on anyone using, buying or selling Rhino anything.

    BTW, Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom on Animal Planet had a show on China's last elephants. Will be replayed on May 18.

    http://animal.discovery.com/videos/m...elephants.html
    "The true meaning of a given movement in a form is not its application, but rather the unlimited potential of the mind to provide muscular and skeletal support for that movement." Gregory Fong

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,044

    Endangered Species Day 2010

    WildAid is holding a silent auction next Friday. Check it out.

    4/10/2010Celebrate Endangered Species Day!

    UPDATE: Absentee bidding is now open for our silent auction!

    Our online supporters get a sneak peek at the auction items and a chance to bid before event night! Act now and take something home, with all proceeds benefitting endangered wildlife!

    As a service to bidders unable to attend the silent auction, WildAid will enter their absentee bid. All lots will be purchased at the lowest possible price subject to any reserve price and other bids and never more than the top amount indicated by the bidder. Absentee forms may be submitted by e-mail, fax, mail or in person to the WildAid offices. Bidders will be notified via phone or e-mail of the success or failure of their bids the week following the auction. All purchases must be paid for upon notification of purchase. Credit cards submitted will NOT be charged until the bidder is notified by WildAid after the silent auction on Friday. May 21st. In the event of identical bids the earliest bid received will take precedence.

    WildAid believes that scientific study, field protection programs and strong legislation are necessary, but not sufficient in curbing illegal wildlife trade. Addressing consumer demand has long been ignored and perhaps viewed as outside the expertise of conventional conservation organizations, but any coherent portfolio of actions to address endangered species must include demand reduction plans.

    WildAid has developed a unique, integrated model to address demand. We work with government, business, community leaders, media partners, celebrities and high profile individuals to advocate social and behavioral change. We promote new regulations for the protection of wildlife and greater local and international cooperation for improved enforcement. WildAid has built a unique network of key strategic partnerships to deliver high-impact, culturally sensitive, nationwide multi-media campaigns aimed at changing attitudes, reducing unsustainable consumption of wildlife while building high-level political support for conservation.

    Join us for a lively discussion with experts currently creating and delivering innovative strategies to protect biodiversity and convert consumers worldwide.

    Threatened, Endangered, Extinct: Marketing Biodiversity to Global Audiences

    Panel Members:

    Steve Trent - WildAid Founder & President, Director of China & India programs

    Eric Steinhauser -WildAid Executive Creative Director

    Shawn Heinrichs - Executive Producer, Blue Sphere Media

    Marcel Bigue - WildAid Director of Marine Programs

    Date: Friday, May 21, 2010Time: 6:00 - 8:30pm

    Place: The University Club800 Powell Street (corner of California St) San Francisco

    ****tails & Hors D'oeuvres

    Silent Auction including travel, restaurants, jewelry, limited edition signed wildlife prints and more...

    RSVP to:
    Erin Sullivan
    sullivan@wildaid.org
    Tel: 415-834-3174
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,044

    Save those tigers!

    A Reason to Celebrate
    Amur tigers get first China-Russia transboundary protected area
    For Release: Aug 30, 2010

    This year the major highlight of the Amur Tiger Cultural Festival in the northeastern Chinese city of Hunchun was not the colourful costume parade, art performances or even the ecological tour of a tiger habitat.

    On August 29, the Chinese and Russian governments announced a collaboration on the first transboundary Amur tiger protected area between Jilin province in China and neighbouring Primorsky province in Russia.

    The agreement, facilitated by WWF, will help wildlife authorities establish a transboundary protected area, which is a cooperative conservation network that crosses international borders, and partner to restore the endangered species. It marks another important milestone during the Year of the Tiger in 2010.

    Destruction and fragmentation of habitat, poaching and lack of prey have reduced the number of wild Amur tigers. It is the largest of all the tiger subspecies with an estimated total population of about 450. Of these, 20 tigers have been periodically spotted within the borders of China’s Jilin and Heilongjiang provinces.

    “A new transboundary protected area would provide a wider and healthier habitat for Amur tigers and other endangered species, such as the Amur leopard, musk deer and goral,” said Yu Changchun, Director of Conservation Department of Jilin Forestry Department at the event.

    Jilin and Primorsky provinces will increase information sharing on the protection of the two big cat species, adopt identical monitoring systems for tigers and their prey, conduct joint ecological surveys and develop plans to launch an anti-poaching campaign along the border.

    “While tigers—the species at the top of the ecosystem—are better conserved through the agreement, other species, the forest habitat and all the biodiversity resources will also benefit from this protected area,” said Dr. Zhu Chunquan, WWF-China’s Conservation Director.

    In addition to promoting the transboundary protected area, WWF-China successfully helped establish a protected area for tigers in Jilin. It is also working with northeast China’s Heilongjiang province, another important home to Amur tigers, to bring it under the fold of the transboundary protected area. If this plan comes to fruition, the protected area for Amur tigers and other threatened species will double.

    “This agreement is a great boost for Amur tiger habitats in Russia and China. Since both countries play a crucial role in terms of global tiger recovery, a future transboundary network would represent a big step in WWF’s global tiger conservation effort,” said Dr. Sergey Aramilev, Biodiversity Coordinator for Amur Branch of WWF-Russia, which is also involved in promoting the agreement. “There’s a lot of work to be done to implement this agreement, such as making sure it receives proper government funding, but this is a major step forward nonetheless.”
    By the way, here's a link to our WildAid Tiger Champion thread. I should have posted this here long ago.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,044

    When science disproves tradition, tradition must adapt...

    ...otherwise we'd still be burning witches and eating mercury for immortality.

    Does Protecting Endangered Rhinos Conflict With Traditional Chinese Medicine?
    by David DeFranza, Washington, DC on 01.24.11

    A report released in the first weeks of 2011 announced that in the previous year a record number of endangered rhinoceros had been killed by poachers—333 in 2010 compared to just 133 in 2009. The next day, South African police cornered a band of poachers and—after a protracted firefight—shot and killed five of them.

    The two events illustrate the status of the rhino across its range. A rapid increase of poaching in Sub-Saharan Africa—in spite of expanded efforts of conservation police in many afflicted countries—has been fueled by a growing demand for rhinoceros horn on the medicinal black markets of East and South East Asia. Only by curbing this demand, conservationists say, can the rhinos truly be protected.

    But is this approach to conservation an attack on traditional medicine and time-honored cultural practices?

    Some practitioners of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) believe that efforts to end the international trade of rhinoceros horn are, indeed, an affront to their culture. Limiting the use of rhino horn—which is commonly prescribed to treat fever, among other ailments, but never as an aphrodisiac—others say, prevents patients from receiving the treatment they need to get healthy or even survive.

    "I agree that all herbalists have duties to protect the endangered animals," one Hong Kong TCM trader told New Scientist, "however, we are equally obliged to use these antidotes to cure the patients. In my opinion, human lives are much more important than those of the animals."

    A Perception of Potency

    The problematic use of endangered species in TCM is not new. For centuries, traditional medicas and pharmacopoeias have noted the danger of exploiting rare antidotes—at the risk they may become lost to medicine—and provided more common alternatives.

    In the case of rhinoceros horn, alternatives including buffalo horn have been documented since as early as the sixth century.

    Unfortunately, these alternatives are often thought of as lesser equivalents. The common perception is that products from the rare original source is the most potent and that alternatives—whether from other animals, farm-raised animals, or, worse of all, synthetic sources—are not as effective as cures.

    This understanding—which is not supported by the Chinese Government or the TCM establishment—continues to drive the black market in wild-caught animal products including, of course, the horns of critically endangered rhinoceros.
    The Medical Reality

    Many treatments fully embraced by Western Medicine have natural roots. Indeed, several now common treatments—notably Artemisin as a treatment for malaria and Ephedrine for asthma—were taken from Traditional Chinese Medicine, where they have been used for centuries.

    Rhinoceros horn, however, is not one of these medicines. Studies conducted in 1983 and 2008 at the Zoological Society of London both concluded that rhino horn has no therapeutic value.

    A study conducted at Chinese University in Hong Kong in 1990 looked specifically at rhino horn's efficacy as a fever reducer. Researchers found that in extremely large doses, rhino horn could slightly lower fever in mice. As the concentrations were reduced, however, the ground horn quickly lost its power and, by the time it reached levels commonly prescribed, it had no impact whatsoever.

    Understanding TCM

    These findings, of course, do not invalidate the entire practice of Traditional Chinese Medicine. In fact, this view of TCM—common among Western onlookers—as a monolithic and unchanging practice is one of the key misunderstandings muddying the debate over the use of endangered animal products.

    The earliest documentation of TCM practices is found in Shang Dynasty hieroglyphics dating back to 1600-1100 BC. From those early notations it was modified and refined extensively, most notably between 300 - 100 BC and around 200 AD.

    In modern history, TCM branched with followers of the Jingfang school relying on documents from the Han Dynasty, and practitioners of the Wenbing school using more recent texts from the Ming and Qing Dynasties. The history of TCM, clearly, is long and its ability to change and adapt over time is likely why it remains relevant.

    Today, TCM exists as a parallel system to Western Medicine in much of East Asia. Its focus on healthy diet and exercise—and a holistic approach to treatment—makes it an excellent compliment to diagnoses arrived at via Western Medicine and, often, patients will be consulted by a team that consists of practitioners of both systems.

    The problem, in reality, is not the practice of TCM, which some activists and conservationists have argued. Instead, it is an economic system that spans borders and is driven by a lack of education at the consumer level and opportunism among dealers and traders.
    A Cross-Cultural Solution

    The solution, then, is one that considers the unique needs of all involved, including TCM practitioners and patients, conservationists, governments, and international governing bodies. Activists and policy makers must operate from a position of understanding, recognizing the proven value of TCM and focusing, specifically, on the problems TCM faces in countries increasingly eager to embrace Western culture. Practitioners, on the other hand, must continue to advocate for the sustainable use of natural resources but also focus efforts on educating patients on the essential value of alternatives.

    In the end, Traditional Chinese Medicine should not become a scapegoat for international conservation issues. Instead, it should be recognized as a valuable, centuries old, body of medical practice and, more significantly, a flexible tool for educating people otherwise unconcerned with the health of species struggling a continent away.

    UPDATE: Reading the comments, there seems to be some confusion over the central argument of this post. To help clarify things, here is a quick summary:

    1. The efforts of conservation police in Africa, while commendable, have not been able to keep pace with increasingly well financed and equipped poachers.

    2. This is and economic issue. Market demand in Asia (and yes, Yemen and other places) drives up the price of illegal animal products, making the financial payoff poachers stand to earn worth, in their eyes, the risk of arrest or death.

    3. Market demand is based on the belief that rhino horn has a medicinal value. Science has shown it does not but that hasn't dissuaded everyone.

    4. Traditional Chinese Medicine is a centuries-old cultural institution that has the ability to change. More importantly it has, like all cultural institutions, the ability to change how people think. By working with and not against TCM practitioners (ie. doctors and pharmacists) activists have an effective tool for eliminating the bulk of the demand for rhino horn.

    5. This is an international issue, meaning that the full participation of the United Nations, national governments, and NGOs like TRAFFIC are essential for finding a solution.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Destin, FL
    Posts
    388
    Nice one, Gene.

    Killing an endangered species for their parts is crazy--there are so many other effective strong herbs out there that clear heat or whatever the herb needed that its just uncalled for.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,230
    Unfortunately it is hard to stop this as these concepts have been taught within the culture for thousands of years.

    Not saying it is okay, just that anthropologically speaking I can see where it comes from.

    Thanks for posting this Gene.
    Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
    Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,044

    Here's a flip

    I wonder if we could ground up those poachers noses to make aphrodisiacs? Is that comment in bad taste? Sorry.
    7 February 2011 Last updated at 10:06 ET
    Three 'rhino poachers' shot by rangers in South Africa
    By Karen Allen Southern Africa correspondent, BBC News

    Three suspected rhino poachers have been shot and killed by rangers in South Africa's Kruger National Park.

    Security forces confronted a gang of five at the well-known tourist destination. Another member of the group was wounded.

    Rangers say they recovered a firearm, ammunition and other tools used for rhino poaching from the scene.

    It is the latest in a series of attempts to reverse the rising trade.

    Demand for rhino horn has soared in recent years - fuelled by the belief in parts of Asia that it has medicinal properties.

    The black market price of rhino horn is now in the region of £35,000 ($55,000) a kilogram.

    Last year, South Africa recorded more than 300 cases of poaching.

    Despite the prospect of high-level prosecutions, the financial rewards for criminals are helping to fuel the trade.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,044

    "There is a strange and very lucrative market in Chinese medicine"

    Epidemic of UK rhino horn thefts linked to one criminal gang
    Rhino horns stolen from museums fetch twice the value of gold on the Chinese medicine market
    Esther Addley
    guardian.co.uk, Monday 8 August 2011 16.48 BST

    Rosie the rhinoceros took her last breath somewhere on the Indian subcontinent early last century. She was shot, skinned, stuffed and shipped to London. Then, in 1907, she was acquired by Ipswich Museum, which swapped her with the Natural History Museum for a pig. For more than a century, in Ipswich, she has suffered the pats of generations of school children, her horn curling to the ceiling.

    Last month, however, Rosie suffered the second violation of her ignominious afterlife, almost as cruel as the first.

    At 12.27am on Thursday 28 July, two men forced their way through a fire escape at the rear of the museum and made straight for the rhinoceros, where they swiftly wrenched off her 45cm (18-inch) horn. They paused only to collect the skull of a second black rhino, displayed on a ledge above its stuffed cousin, before fleeing in a silver saloon car. Nothing else was stolen.

    One might think that only a foolish criminal would bypass the lavish gold burial masks of Titos Flavios Demetrios upstairs in the Egyptian gallery, or even the priceless Hawaiian cape made from feathers of the 'o'o bird, in favour of some century-old rhino remains. In fact, police believe these were very canny criminals indeed.

    The Ipswich rhinoceros-horn theft is merely the latest from museums and auction houses across Britain and Europe, driven by soaring prices for horn in the far east. According to Europol, many of them are conducted by an Irish crime gang more accustomed to drug trafficking, money laundering and smuggling.

    In February, the stuffed and mounted head of a black rhino was taken from Sworders Fine Art Auctioneers in Stansted Mountfitchet, Essex. On 27 May, a similar head was taken from the Educational Museum in Haslemere, Surrey, which has one of the largest natural history collections in the UK. Last month it was the turn of a museum in Liège, Belgium; three weeks later the Royal Belgian Institute for Natural Sciences in Brussels suffered a similar heist, in which the head of a black rhino, dating from 1827, was stolen.

    According to the Metropolitan police, 20 thefts have taken place across Europe in the past six months – in Portugal, France, Germany, the Czech Republic, Belgium and Sweden as well as the UK. Scotland Yard and Europol are now advising galleries and collectors to consider locking up their rhino horn collections or keeping them away from public view. Several institutions, including the Natural History Museum and the Horniman Museum in south London, have removed their displays or replaced horns with replicas.

    Behind the crime wave is a surge in demand from the far east and European Asian communities for powdered rhino horn, which is used in traditional Chinese medicines. It is valued as a remedy for everything from fevers and headaches to cancer, and demand is so intense it has pushed the value of horn to £60,000 per kilogram – twice the value of gold. Sworders had valued their rhino head, as an artefact, at £50,000; in the medicinal market, however, it could be worth £200,000.

    "It is a new crime phenomenon targeting people who may not have ordinarily been victims of crime and who are vulnerable victims," said Patric Byrne, Europol's head of unit for organised crime networks. "And we are not dealing with petty criminals." The gang "of Irish ethnic origin", which the agency has identified as being responsible for many of the attacks, has a background in violence, drug trafficking and intimidation, he said. "There is a strange and very lucrative market in Chinese medicine. They have found that this product attracts a particular premium in some Asian communities."

    Detective Constable Ian Lawson, from the Metropolitan police's art and antiques unit, said the gang used a variety of methods to steal the objects, from carefully planned burglaries to "smash and grab" raids, and police had also been alerted to "hostile reconnaissance" from gang members.

    Even more worrying is an associated growth in the poaching of live rhinos, according to conservation experts. "In the last three years, 800 African rhinos have been killed and experts agree that we are facing the worst rhino-poaching crisis in decades," said Lucy Boddam-Whetham, the acting director of Save the Rhino International.

    Nearly 200 rhinos were killed in South Africa in the first six months of this year, compared with 125 in the same period last year. The organisation says the museum thefts are stimulating the live-rhino poaching, making their situation even more perilous. There are only 20,000 white rhinos and fewer than 5,000 black rhinos in the wild.

    Police tape has been removed from around Rosie at Ipswich Museum, replaced by an apologetic laminated note explaining the missing horn. "People love this museum. It's just so sad," said Bryony Rudkin, the councillor who holds the portfolio for museums and culture at Ipswich borough council. "On the morning after it happened, we had a family come in – a grandmother, mother and child – and the grandmother said, 'I remember coming when I was a child. It's really sad, because everyone in Ipswich knows who she is.'"

    "It's a bit selfish to just take the horn," said Miriam Kendall, 10, from Dennington, visiting with her father and younger brother. Tristan, six, thought the thieves were "stupid".

    At least there is some good news for Rosie. As a result of the robbery, she is to be the focus of a panel on a new civic mural to be mounted on the town's waterfront, where she will appear not in her mutilated state but with her dignity, and horn, restored. The museum is, meanwhile, making her a replica horn, which will be screwed, very firmly, into the nose of the long-dead beast.
    This is another reason why we support WildAid
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,230
    I hope anyone who illegally trades in any form of life on the CITES list, burns in a hell of their own making.

    digusting.
    Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
    Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •