Where is the WCK?

[Ultimatewingchun]

If you admit that (after all these years in wing chun) "you're not that good," Terence...

that means you suck.

And the faster people around here get this picture, the faster they will stop taking Niehoff's posts about "what's good, what's not good, what is real training and what isn't"...seriously.

The guy sucks.

Ignore him.

This is not even meant to be funny. I'm dead serious - ignore his posts, because to respond to them is to waste your time.

[anerlich]

I don't admit I suck, I admit that I'm not that good.

Then the fact that you can't make the training methods you advocate work for you, and therefore they are questionable, still applies.

So, you're the only one that's prepared to state you're nothing special? The admission is unnecessary, as your posts make it obvious to all.

I reckon you suck, anyways.

[Matrix]

If you admit that (after all these years in wing chun) "you're not that good," Terence...

that means you suck.

Hey Victor,
I think the "I'm not so good" mantra is meant to deflect demands for T to post a clip of himself. It reminds me of the Wizard of OZ.... "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

I think Terence is a skilled fighter. He wants to change the way people think about their training, but does not want to show himself as an example. I just think it's a feeble attempt at false-modesty.

Terence. You're better than average, in fact better than most. In your heart, you believe that don't you? I believe, that you think that way. Your posts to the contrary are a smoke screen. The reason I say this is the conviction with which you post your POV. Someone who is uncertain of themselves would not speak the way you speak.

I know the truth will come out one day.

[Matrix]

The is the best post so far on this thread. Why that I've continued with this thread for so long is baffling me.

Phil,
It's good to see that you're still fightling the good fight.

Bill

[Edmund]

The pak sao type action you are talking about BEGINS (and is competed) before he punches -- a 1-2 timing.

No. And it's contradicting the idea of beats that you raised yourself.

Beats are in relation to the opponent's action.
e.g. Rashad probably stepped in to throw 2 punches. That would a 1-2 timing.

If it was only intended as a single jab it would have been a single beat.

He was hit before his punch retracted and as his jab was deflected. Because it was timed together.

The whole term Pak da implies a simultaneous double action because it's stuck 2 different terms together to form the word.

Pak da: both hands move together - one helping out the other.
Pak sao then punch: A 1-2 timing. complete one action then follow with another.

[anerlich]

No. And it's contradicting the idea of beats that you raised yourself.

Beats are in relation to the opponent's action.
e.g. Rashad probably stepped in to throw 2 punches. That would a 1-2 timing.

If it was only intended as a single jab it would have been a single beat.

He was hit before his punch retracted and as his jab was deflected. Because it was timed together.

The whole term Pak da implies a simultaneous double action because it's stuck 2 different terms together to form the word.

Pak da: both hands move together - one helping out the other.
Pak sao then punch: A 1-2 timing. complete one action then follow with another.

OK that makes sense, I see what you're getting at now. Good description.

[anerlich]

Someone who is uncertain of themselves would not speak the way you speak.

But that's exactly the problem T chastises the TNF's he sees on his eyelids in bed at night about. Total belief in self and one's own methods without the evidence to back it up.

[Matrix]

Total belief in self and one's own methods without the evidence to back it up.

Just because you haven't seen the evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You may be right, he may be delusional, but I think he's playing coy.

In a way, it really doesn't matter much. I think in his heart of hearts he believes that he's better than anyone on this forum, or at least 99% of the people here. And who knows, he just me be. This "I'm not that good" stuff is just blowing smoke.

[MarkJ]

If you admit that (after all these years in wing chun) "you're not that good," Terence...

that means you suck.

And the faster people around here get this picture, the faster they will stop taking Niehoff's posts about "what's good, what's not good, what is real training and what isn't"...seriously.

The guy sucks.

Ignore him.

This is not even meant to be funny. I'm dead serious - ignore his posts, because to respond to them is to waste your time.

After reading through this thread I could not add anything more to what you said above and agree with you 100%

Ignore him

Good training to all

[anerlich]

Just because you haven't seen the evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Well yeah, but if it hasn't been produced despite numerous requests, demands and dares, I would have to conclude that it most probably doesn't. What's the upside in hiding it under the proverbial bushel?

Dale is like T in a lot of ways (and fortunately, unlike him in many others, like actually having the abilities to back up his mouth/fingers), but he actually has the evidence and so he's treated with respect, even if it is grudging from some.

This "I'm not that good" stuff is just blowing smoke.

IMO it's ALL blowing smoke.

[t_niehoff]

After reading through this thread I could not add anything more to what you said above and agree with you 100%

Ignore him

Good training to all

From the guy who claims he is learning how to "easily deal" with MMA fighters. That sums up where you are coming from.

[t_niehoff]

Then the fact that you can't make the training methods you advocate work for you, and therefore they are questionable, still applies.

Not at all. It seems the reasoning ability of people on this forum is not very good -- I wonder if tist comes from atrophy through their WCK training (brainwashing).

I've said this many times, to learn how to effectively train, we should look to good, proven fighters and fight trainers. Listen to THEM. I'm not saying listen to me becasue I am so good or I am a master or I am a sifu or whatever -- I am saying look to the really good, proven fighters and fight trainers.

And when we do that, we see, regardless of their style, that they all use the same process for developing fighitng skill. We know that works by THEIR results. We also know that people who don't do that don't produce their level of results (where are all the TCMA-only-trained fighters?).

This process of skill development, btw, is also what all good athletes use. It has been studies and validated by sport scientists, by psycho-motor skill development research, etc.

So, we know what works, why it works, etc.

The validity of this does not depend on me or my skill level. It doesn't depend on ANY one person or one person's skill level. The significance of it depends on the results achieved across populations.

Some of you just want to make this a personal argument, a my-skill vs your-skill discussion. That's not what it is about. All that does is distract people from seeing all the above. And, quite frankly, that is precisely what I think some of you want to do. You want to distract people from the real issue. Don't look at results across populatuions, don't examine our teaching and training methods in light of what we now know about how to effectively train,etc.

Well, I'm simply not going to get drawn into that.

The other thing is that I think it stupid and egotistical to hold yourself out as a personal authority of how to do something when you are not simply awesome. That's why I don't put up videos of myself. I know that I'm not that good. That doesn't mean I suck or I'm terrible, it means I don't think I am good enough to warrant telling others to look to me (personally) for how things should be done.

[t_niehoff]

Hey Victor,
I think the "I'm not so good" mantra is meant to deflect demands for T to post a clip of himself. It reminds me of the Wizard of OZ.... "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

I think Terence is a skilled fighter. He wants to change the way people think about their training, but does not want to show himself as an example. I just think it's a feeble attempt at false-modesty.

Terence. You're better than average, in fact better than most. In your heart, you believe that don't you? I believe, that you think that way. Your posts to the contrary are a smoke screen. The reason I say this is the conviction with which you post your POV. Someone who is uncertain of themselves would not speak the way you speak.

I know the truth will come out one day.

It has absolutely nothing to do with my abilites.

You don't need to be good to see what I am talking about -- all it takes is to stop being brainwashed and to get some significant experience. For example, I KNOW without any doubt that to be a well-rounded fighter you need to learn and develop a decent ground game, and that without a ground game you can't be much of a fighter. That isn't because I am a great fighter or because I am an authority but because I SEE from both watching what good fighters do (and listening to them) and from training with them how important the ground is. The validity of that doesn't depend on my skill level, it doesn't rest with me or what I can do -- the proof exists apart from me.

Now, let me ask you -- what does it take to convince you that this view is true? Do you listen to what proven, good fighters say and, more importantly, do? Do you go train with good fighters and see this for yourself?

Or, do you think seeing videos of me is what it will take? You see, the validity of this has nothing to do with me, and doesn't rest with me. Even if I posted videos of my training, showing me sparring and going to the ground, would that change everyone's mind (gee, if Niehoff spars and goes to the ground, it must be true!) when the fact that every single proven fighter does the same things hasn't changed their mind (since they apparently ignore all that evidence)?

[t_niehoff]

No. And it's contradicting the idea of beats that you raised yourself.

Beats are in relation to the opponent's action.
e.g. Rashad probably stepped in to throw 2 punches. That would a 1-2 timing.

If it was only intended as a single jab it would have been a single beat.

He was hit before his punch retracted and as his jab was deflected. Because it was timed together.

The whole term Pak da implies a simultaneous double action because it's stuck 2 different terms together to form the word.

Pak da: both hands move together - one helping out the other.
Pak sao then punch: A 1-2 timing. complete one action then follow with another.

No, timing (beats) applies to both individuals. A pak da (a pak sao and strike) can be performed with a 1-2 timing or a 1 beat timing. If performed with a 1-2 timing, that is not a simutaneousl block and hit since you are doing one action then the other -- or, do you believe that a boxer's 1-2 (jab, cross) is a simul double strike? Don't you think a boxer might throw a 1-2 between an opponent's actions? The 1 beat timing is what makes it simultaneous -- it occurs AT THE SAME TIME (the definition of simultaneous). When the pak sao and strike, or two strikes, occur at the same time, then it is an example of simultaneous action.

[HumbleWCGuy]

After reading through this thread I could not add anything more to what you said above and agree with you 100%

Ignore him

Good training to all

I have said the same thing for a while. Niehoff has latched on to some decent training advice that I am sure has helped him a great deal. Unfortunately, he only understands the training methods and their relationship to low-level mma striking and not to the overall context of sophisticated arts that have a higher ceiling of effectiveness.