Question for Wah Lum people

[NorthernMantis]

Hey Sa did you say hi to the guys for me?

[Tainan Mantis]

Northern Mantis,
I have studied Wah Lum and 8 Step. Also 6 Harmony, Secret Door, Taiji Mantis, 7* and Plum Flower(jack of all, master of none).
There is no similarity in style between wah lum and 8 step.

I posted on another thread that in the GM of 8 Step book he mentions jut sow and so people have some confusion.
In a list of forms(12) that Lee Kwan Shan taught the only form in common is Da Fan Che. But this form is common to several styles of PM.

Wah Lum doesn't have the dzai yao forms until Zhang Bing Do taught them to Wah Lum people, but those forms are the nucleus of 8 Step according to Wei Hsiao Tang's book. So I also find no connection, although my teacher said there was one.
No evidence has come to light, either written or in the curriculum to prove otherwise.

18 Elders,
I heard that Master Chan did Lee Kwan Shan's 12 form curriculum before Boston. This was told to me by his kung fu cousin.

About the curriculum, my choice of forms, in this order:
-beng bu
-lan jie
-8 elbows
while simultaneusly learning 9 turns Pai Da.

I don't have the second beng bu you mentioned.
By the way, do you hear sleigh bells?

[NorthernMantis]

Thanks for confirming it Tainan.Joe I think you might have been misinformed about wah lum.

Oh yeah Merry Christmas and Happy Hanuka everyone!!

[SaMantis]

Hey NM,

Didn't get a chance to say hi for you this week!

Sifu Mimi and Co. took off on the Wah Lum cruise this week, but I will see them when they get back!

Peace,

Sam

[Kempo]

I have heard of a Wah Lum form called Wood Jung that is performed on the plum flower posts. Has anyone seen this form or have it?

Thanks

[18elders]

Yes there is a form performed on the jong poles.

When Lee kwan shan combined the tam tui and mantis did he just teach both styles in his curriculum or did he make up the forms using mantis techniques and tam tui?
Also it is always said Chan poi named it Wah lum tam tui northern praying mantis out of respect for his teacher, what did Lee kwan shan call it?
Lee kwan shan spent some time in Vietnam, does anyone know of any wah lum there or would it even be called wah lum?

Who was Chin yeung's teacher?

A guy i know had some rental proptery in St. Pete, FL, he was renting to a chinese man. He went to collect the rent check one day and he was wearing his wah lum t-shirt. The old guy started to ask him about it and he told him it was jut sow mantis style.
The guy was from mainland china, zhengzhou and his grandfather was a jut sow master. He learned from his grandfather and later on he was the body guard to a high up political leader in vietnam. He showed him all kinds of stuff and some nice 2 person forms he had on tape. When my friend did some of the wah lum forms for him the guy said it isn't jut sow mantis. I know he didn't know big mantis so he didn't show him that one.
He started to train with the guy and they did alot of forearm strengthening, he said the guys forearms where the size of someones calf muscle.
I don't know the name of the chinese guy, he moved shortly after the guy started to train with him.
I also never met the man, the guy i knew always avoided me ever meeting the chinese man, i think he didn't want me to learn from him, he wanted the knowledge to himself.


Sa mantis, yes i know the exercise and that it is called elephant trunk but i remember Master chan was sent some information about some elephant mantis style, he used to have it pinned up on the board beside the coke machine.
Lila had a kwando with the symbol on it.

[18elders]

Hey tainan, in the one i sent you, in the opening moves when he steps out to the left, if he does a double knife hand strike and then they chop down to the collar bone then that is chan wan ching's version. If the knife hand strike isn't there it is chan poi's version. There are some more differences in the form, chan wan ching's version has some better moves in it.

Do you still have contact with his kung fu cousin?

Yes, the sleigh bells are ringing, how about you?

Hope to see you in March.

[18elders]

Does anyone know Kenny Edwards, he lives in CA, he used to do Wah lum but not he does eagle claw. He was in the first Mortal combat movie.
He was training in a park one time and a chinese guy was watching him, he came up and started to talk to him, it turns out this guy trained with Chan wan ching.
I have tried to contact Kenny to ask him about it but i can't get ahold of him.

[woliveri]

Hey 18 Elders, try here.

http://www.kungfuusa.com

I've been to Kenny's school a couple of times since I moved out from Florida.

Hope this helps.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

18Elders
I've never heard of Saint Hands but you can bet I'll be asking about it. The hand moves to the 8 basic stances were taught before my time although Mike and I have pieced together some of them. I don't know why they were dropped but i would prefer to have them. As for the 4th part of Lok Low, there was a cruise seminar not too long ago (did you go) where he taught the 3rd part but it was for Sifus only so I missed it. I only have 1 and 2. I would guess that nobody knows part 4 except maybe Mimi.

Lee Kwan Shan named the style Wah Lum out of respect for the temple where he learned Praying Mantis. Tam Tui was his family style. He added mantis hand techniques to Tam Tui to create Wah Lum. It appears to me that the higher you go the more original the material. At least that's my impression.

If you talk to Kenny ask him about the old Wah Lum guy he met. Kenny performed an advanced form (don't remember which one) and afterwards an old man about Master Chans age came up to him and told him it was wrong. He showed Kenny the correct way and then managed to disappear back into the crowd. Kenny said he moved as good or better than Master Chan.

woliveri
Haven't seen you post in awhile. Master Chan taught the 2nd part of Soft Form on the last Mexico cruise. I've heard there are 6 parts with part one being very simple, like 8 Chain Punch. I don't know anyone who knows all if it.

Tainan Mantis
The Lan Jie taught currently at Wah Lum did not come from Master Chan and it is not in the curriculum. There may be one on a level higher than 7.

Kempo
There is a form done on the poles but I haven't seen or heard of anyone knowing it. I had (I guess I still have) a goal to be one of the few to learn it. So far Master Chan just thinks I'm crazy climbing around the poles but did suggest that I had to learn certain material first AND exhibit sufficient physical ability. I'm fairly close to meeting those requirements.

[SaMantis]

18 elders,

That's right, I remember Lila showing a few of the students/si hings her kwan do, there was a symbol on it but I never asked what it was. That was a couple years back.

That bulletin board by the coke machine has been changed around ... I wonder if they still have that info lying around.

Thanks for the clarification!

Sam

[whitewhirlwhind]

I once traveled to watch and participate in a community celebration. To my surprise, there were two kung fu schools to perform at the exhibition. As a sincere student myself, I was excited at the opportunity and settled in and watched the two schools.

The first school presented themselves in the same uniforms. Each member of the school carried themselves in a positive way. The teacher said very little; he only gave encouragement to his students. His focus seemed to be on his school and their actions.

The second school’s students also carried themselves in a positive way. And the school’s teachers also encouraged the nervously excited students. There was no difference between the two schools before each performed.

The second school, who seemed to have no discernable uniform, went first. The school opened with a lion dance performed by young children. The crowd loved it! I clapped and laughed too! Then the school did various forms and two-person exercises. Some exercises and drills were tight, but the majority seemed loose. The teachers participated in many exercises and drills. But the school just seemed preoccupied?

The first school went second. Their drills and exercises were tight! The teacher stood in front of where the school performed and pounded out cadence and melodies on a drum. His only other participation was to watch his school intently and smile encouragement and approval at his students.

I later learned that the teacher of the first school was ever inward looking and soft-spoken. He teaches his students to think for themselves. He encourages them to find for themselves through kung fu their own applications and answers to life. His goal is to make his school worthy of its system’s inspiring lineage. He seemed to know his school was judged by his actions.

I also learned that a teacher from the second school was preoccupied with disparaging and discrediting the authenticity and lineage of the first. I wonder if his preoccupation was reflected in the performance that I watched.

[18elders]

I saw the same demo, some interesting points though,
the second school that performed first had a majority of children. Since it was a Santa fest gathering, it was thought it should be for the kids to have fun. I didn't see any children in the first school that went second.
I also know someone in the first school that went second. He stated that all they have done for 3 months is practise for that show to try and upstage the first perormers. I agree they did a nice job on lining up and everything was pretty tight. It is that someone with real kung fu knowledge would see the technique and body movement and power of the first performers was great.
They may have not been as tight with lining up as children get a bit stage fright.
The second group of perfomers have no power, no fa jing in their moves, nice dancers but no martial spirit.
The same guy that said the second performers(he goes to that school) trained for 3 months for the show, also stated the teacher(that soft spoken one you mentioned) from that school said the teacher and the master from the first performers suck. I found that odd since many of the students from the second group of performers have left that school to train with the first group of performers.

[Olethros]

I think I get the identities of the "first group of performers" and the "second group of performers" and I'm prettty sure that there's a history between the two sifu's that goes back a while.

As for the accusations that the one school had weak attacks, I think that might be attributed to the fact that they were doing exhibition stuff and not true forms.

[argentino]

Please contact me and I will forward you Ken Edward's contact information. I do not want to post his e-mail address here because someone could abuse it.

Best regards

El argentino
mantisking@hotmail.com