3 section wall bag - any safety issues?

[lost lohan]

Mike said you were a good guy, so I will explain. The Whole concept that Dugan eluded to kinda got me fired up. I apologize. The whole You can have too much Iron in your body from contact with steal is kinda crazy. My point in my original post was a cheap iron palm bag. The fact that you got 2 canvas bags with 10 pounds of steal shot 1 bag for each 5 pounds you buy, at cabelas (a chain of fishing/hunting stores, really any hunting store could help.) for 30.00 plus tax versus paying for a filled IP bag is an inexpensive alternative. The we can make a great lined bag that is safer, kinda.. is like huh? And my point was shipping plus steal plus bag.

And if to much Iron from contact is a problem.......then why do surgeons use steal instruments? Or why are bike handles made from steal? Etc.? That is the marketing crap I'm talking about. Can a person develop respiratory problems from breathing bad air? Every day at home! So why do we insist on vinyl wrapped steal? Because someone told us a danger exists, some one selling something. I know that you sell quality products because someone I trust mentioned you as being someone to trust, actually "a good person". So I don't mind explaining myself.

So if I upset YOU personally....I'm sorry, your post had merit. I tried to acknowledge that. I do have a source for bags, but I would be willing to try some of your other products sometime. I just have little patience for people working on an agenda that slights others. I hope I made it clear, my original post was about the total package, not just the shot, not just the bag and not just the shipping. But an iron palm bag for around 30.00 - 40.00, that was it. And the savings over purchasing a combined product, that was it. It wasn't complicated, people not reading the thread made it complicated to further commercial interests....that's it.

[LSWCTN1]

i started on 10mm pea shingle gravel in a canvas bag from pagoda

started without jow, then bought leung jan jow from pagoda too - didnt notice a diffence really - maybe i wasnt doing it right or maybe its more in the massage than the oitment? i dont know.

was fighting once and missed the guy on the floor, hitting the pavement. grazes were frustrating but dont 'hurt' as such. no pain whatsoever from hitting a very solid object (the floor!)

still only using the pea shingle but it seems to be doing what i need it for. improving my structure, pain threshold and hand strength.

[Dale Dugas]

Lost Lohan,

It seems you missed to what I was trying to allude.

There are many people out there promoting the direct training method of Iron Palm. This method can be dangerous as you are in direct contact with the training medium.

Your material is in the open where if its powders you are at risk LONG TERM, for inhaling dust from beans, gravel and IRON pellets. I did not say STEEL shot. If there is any kind of mold, or other fungi on your direct training medium, you could be at risk for lung issues. why take that risk at all? Hence my explanation of putting your medium into a bag, and a lined bag is always going to be safer than non-lined.

Steel shot will be hard to break down over time. but it tends to happen if you are using regular carbon steel shot and not stainless steel which is usually hardened more.

Whether you train indirectly in a bag or directly, having porous bags that can leak any form of dust over time can lead to health issues. If you are using Iron Pellets indirecyly or in a thin bag you are at a higher risk for stroke and heart attack as having too much iron in your blood which will cause ill effects to your health. I was not talking about Steel.

If you use a thin porous canvas bag you can be at risk from inhaling medium dust over the long term, as Iron Palm training is not something you train short term. It is a lifetime of study for those interested. Unless you are training out in the open you could be at risk.

I mentioned lined bags as I have used lead shot bags in my training and have never tested for any lead in my body nor has my teacher. The lined bags prevent any of the lead to get out. Why take the risk of doing ANY damage to your body.

You mentioned cost. The bags alluded to are 25 dollars at my store, the lead shot to fill them is about 70 dollars shipped. You now have a bag for less than a $100.00 that will last a lifetime if used correctly. That is not overly expensive by any ways or means.

It can be seen as cost restrictive by some.

Sometimes it is better to invest in your health now so you do not have to pay for it later.

You also can seek out sand blasting and steel blasting companies and see if you can purchased recycled steel blasting shot.

Soybeans/Mung Beans/ Kidney Beans can be used for 1-2 years before moving to metal shot. You can gain much through the use of such mediums.

I know both Mike Biggie and Josh personally, and speak with them on a regular basis. Mike and I have shared much over the years.

Why make underhanded comments about people having commercial interests at heart? I make and sell real medicine for people that train for real. Mike makes it as well. So does Josh, why not make the same comments about them?

Nothing wrong with promoting the right manner in which to train which will help rather than harm people. There are way too many unskilled amateurs out there who are outright lying and stealing peoples money.

I am not one of them.

[mooyingmantis]

Since most who know me would agree that I am a cheapskate... I would much prefer a lined bag since it should last much longer than an unlined bag. And I think $20-25 for a quality sewn lined bag that should last a lifetime is a bargain.

As for dust, I do not know about the dangers of steel or iron shot. However, lead and aluminum are definite no-nos for health reasons. Lead dust can cause a health risk due to lead poisoning. Aluminum dust is considered one possible cause of Alzheimer's Disease. So definitely avoid lead and aluminum.

Richard

[lost lohan]

I agree a 25.00 bag is a bargain, but a 40.00 filled steel shot bag is a steal! And Dugan, you didn't allude to anyone else when you quoted my entire text, and there wasn't anything in it that said make direct contact with steel shot. So I guess I didn't miss the point, there is nothing "antiquated or dangerous" about using a steel bag double wrapped in canvas. I also never said to use lead, I said to use steel. So I didn't miss anything, but I do appreciate you expounding on some issues people have with IP training. But if you were only talking about the mung bean portion of my text, perhaps only quoting that part would leave out any miss understandings? Just a thought.

And I would never use lead, as Richard mentioned its just to dangerous. And I think much too soft, actualy softer than gravel. So going to lead I would think is almost a step backwards. I haven't seen mung beans get moldy yet, as my school is indoors, but I suppose that could happen if you keep your stuff outside.

[Dale Dugas]

lost lohan,


if you actually knew Mike and his Iron Palm method you would not make such comments about Lead.

If you want to train the wrong way, by all means go ahead. when you want to learn how to develop serious Iron Palm, come find me.

good luck with your training.

[mooyingmantis]

Dale,
You know I am in your corner.
However, I do know Mike. I have practiced on the bag at his school. And I have heard him warn others about the danger of breathing in lead dust. I am not saying he hasn't or doesn't use it. But he does warn about the danger. I choose to use steel shot because I just don't think it is worth the risk, even with quality lined bags such as you sell.
I don't know if Lost Lohan is a student of Mike Biggie's since he remains anonymous. And I have no idea why he is coming off so nasty and aggressive, but knowing Mike as I have since the late 1980's, he wouldn't approve of his behavior. Mike is and always has acted like a gentleman on forums the very few times he has posted. If Lost Lohan is or has been a student of Mike's, I hope he will follow Sifu's example.

Richard A. Tolson

[lost lohan]

Hello Richard,

I'm sorry that I came of as aggressive, That wasn't my intent! The fact that some people are willing to make claims of "your wrong I'm right" is definitely not Wu De! And in that spirit I am willing to apologize to Dale "Dugas" as I did misread his name and have been referring to him by the wrong name....I'm sorry. And to clear the air a little, I will let you know why I choose anonymity. First I am not a student nor ever have been of Sifu Mike Biggie, I only buy DTJ from him, and occasionally a couple other products. I don't follow his methods, I don't know what they are, really. I just know that his KYC formula is the best I've used. As for the rest about me, if we ever become friends, then I'll consider it. Otherwise I have no need or agenda to share who I am, I practice and teach CLF that's it. The rest really doesn't matter. I wish every one the determination to continue there training, and good luck with the future.

[Dale Dugas]

lost lohan.

No need to apologize.

good luck with your training.

let me know if you ever get to Boston.

would love to see how CLF deals with training the hands.