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Thread: Unusual wing chun training

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha_Fist View Post
    I remember!!!

    http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/1633055-1267669721.html

    Goal is to massage your opponent while you fall apart.
    Yeah...something like that.... but i don't use to train with that guy

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TansauNg View Post
    Yeah...something like that.... but i don't use to train with that guy
    So you learned the slo-mo shaky touch Wing Chun from a student of his or is it your own concoction based on watching their impressive granny fighting prowess?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha_Fist View Post
    So you learned the slo-mo shaky touch Wing Chun from a student of his or is it your own concoction based on watching their impressive granny fighting prowess?
    In the past i had some contacts with some of them and with Demann itself... but i'm talking on "oportunities to train with them" (and not to study in their accademy), the main idea in my mind born with them...but i don't think it is just the same since i had different experiences with others vision and in other martial arts. Since 3 years i'm also training in BJJ, so i've introduced also some common concepts from this art...

  4. #19
    Hello,

    Looking at your video clips, you are violating the #1 principal of wing chun: center line. At many instances you are doing a lot of leaning, and although it may or may not be effective at certain times, it goes against what most everyone would agree is wing chun's bread and butter (as far as body structure).

    If you are looking for an art to combine with BJJ, I believe that many have done so with Weng Chun to great effect. GM Adreas Hoffman has a Blackbelt in BJJ, maybe he has a affiliated kwoon in your area.

    Many of the internal arts offer a lot of knowledge in body integration practices, you may also find some benefit in study there. Many consider Taiji to be a grappling art primarily.

    Good Luck on synthesizing your own art, let us know how it goes when you do some Saan Da.

    ~Eric

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha_Fist View Post
    I remember!!!

    http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/1633055-1267669721.html

    Goal is to massage your opponent while you fall apart.
    I think the fact that it is filmed at the same location as "Hostle," earns him cool points...
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  6. #21

    ???

    "Many consider Taiji to be a grappling art primarily."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Not me. Taiji has throws, kicks, elbows etc and Buddha's attendant pounds mortar is not a grappling move!!

    joy chaudhuri

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_H View Post
    Hello,

    Looking at your video clips, you are violating the #1 principal of wing chun: center line. At many instances you are doing a lot of leaning, and although it may or may not be effective at certain times, it goes against what most everyone would agree is wing chun's bread and butter (as far as body structure).

    If you are looking for an art to combine with BJJ, I believe that many have done so with Weng Chun to great effect. GM Adreas Hoffman has a Blackbelt in BJJ, maybe he has a affiliated kwoon in your area.

    Many of the internal arts offer a lot of knowledge in body integration practices, you may also find some benefit in study there. Many consider Taiji to be a grappling art primarily.

    Good Luck on synthesizing your own art, let us know how it goes when you do some Saan Da.

    ~Eric
    ciao Eric, sorry for my bad English but there are some points in your answer that i don't understand..i'm also repling from my phone

    anyway regarding thecenterline i'm not working against thatconcept, but should be important to fix what you/me mean about "centerline". so maybe you cannot "recognize" it... but i can ensure u that we work on it.

    i met some weng chun guys also, some r friends of mine.. but is not the same kind of workout... i train also bjj but separately, i don't mix it..

  8. #23
    。。。

    Sorry if this is something new, but wheres the yao ma (structure)...?

    I believe you are trying to induct principles of Tai Chi and Kum Na (grasping
    of hands)(擒拿) into your training...
    "In fighting, the hand you can see will not hurt you, the hand you cannot see, will hurt you." - Grandmaster Gary Lam

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by -木叶- View Post
    。。。

    Sorry if this is something new, but wheres the yao ma (structure)...?

    I believe you are trying to induct principles of Tai Chi and Kum Na (grasping
    of hands)(擒拿) into your training...
    no no, i'm not trying to induct principles of Tai Chi or something similar... the concept of "structure" is not based on "wing chun dogmas", but on the body - so something more close to Rolfing, Feldenkraist idea.

  10. #25
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    Interesting video, but I can't see anything you are doing that could be termed 'wing chun' from even the basic of concepts/mechanics pov.
    - No idea of self centerline
    - No idea of facing to your opponent (A to B centerline)
    - No fwd energy - running from attacks
    - No control of your opponent.
    (at least, not from what I can see on your video)

    Quote Originally Posted by TansauNg View Post
    no no, i'm not trying to induct principles of Tai Chi or something similar... the concept of "structure" is not based on "wing chun dogmas", but on the body - so something more close to Rolfing, Feldenkraist idea.
    All decent WC structure is based 'on the body'. WC structure comes from whole body alignment from the root up: foot position, correct knee/hip/elbow alignment, correct alignment of the spine, proper facing to opponent or incoming energy, etc. It's not 'dogma', it either works or it doesn't, and it's something that is learned early on in one's training.
    If the wheel is already round, why would you reinvent it?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    Interesting video, but I can't see anything you are doing that could be termed 'wing chun' from even the basic of concepts/mechanics pov.
    - No idea of self centerline
    - No idea of facing to your opponent (A to B centerline)
    - No fwd energy - running from attacks
    - No control of your opponent.
    (at least, not from what I can see on your video)
    There are some points in this kind of training... but most probably (as wrote to Eric) the concepts behind are not the same because of the origin of the art (the origin of this system is WingTsun).... so:

    - there is centerline idea
    - if i want to fight against someone i need to face him, but to avoid the incoming power i need to "move" in any directions...
    - fwd energy, there is but the goal is to hit the target and not to "press" on the opponent arms..
    - The main idea of this sort of training is to be able to "control"/follow incoming power, so there is a lot of control on the opponent's body.... but everything is made differently...



    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    All decent WC structure is based 'on the body'. WC structure comes from whole body alignment from the root up.....


    If the wheel is already round, why would you reinvent it?

    We are always living/working with a "cube wheel", this is not a concept made by myself but there are (in US you can find a lot of these guys!!) some methods which promote this kind of vision... i'm changing the system in order to respect the WT concepts in the application/training.... WC has WC structure, and it doesn't follow the body's one. Also in Europe there is this misunderstanding and people thinks that WC/WT is suitable for the body movement, but this is not true at all... i mean d you ever seen someone in the street walking with the "wc steps" (for example)?

  12. #27
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    the body doesnt do anything naturally. Every thing we do is a learned action. We can take advantage of reflexes etc. But the body doesn't have a natural way to walk. Talk to any personal trainer doing rehab etc. Many people have excessive posterior/ anterior tilt of the pelvis due to incorrect or not optimal posture. Forward pressure is not pressing the hand. How much vt did you learn before you thought you could improve it.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyvt View Post
    the body doesnt do anything naturally.
    Sure, but this depends on HOW you work on your body... fitness and sports approach dosn't provide any help in this vision (i can ensre you this also because training in BJJ i know some kind of "sportish" approach)..... try to check with a good bodyworker how "we" see/approach the body and movement...



    Quote Originally Posted by bennyvt View Post
    But the body doesn't have a natural way to walk. Talk to any personal trainer doing rehab etc.
    Personal trainer works on the beauty of the body or on Athletics performances.... wing chun is something different... it's a method, not a sport or similar.... so i don't care about personal trainers...

    You r right, the body doesn't have a natural way to walk in the "adult" because it is "corrupted" by different "things"..... on the other hand childrens till 2/3 years old has an optimized way of use the body.... but this are infos you can find on the net from different people (doctors, bodyworkers etc....) which are well prepared on this notions...


    Quote Originally Posted by bennyvt View Post
    Forward pressure is not pressing the hand. How much vt did you learn before you thought you could improve it.
    99% of the guys i met in Europe use to press on the "hands", but in the theory they say exactly what you wrote... so there is a misunderstanding between reality and theories....

    I'm training since 17 years.... but i think this is not important, is more important HOW you spent all your training session and HOW MUCH your brain is involved in this training...

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