MMA hands

[Phil Redmond]

Some people think if it's not MMA then it's no good. The MMA ground game can be fantastic but regarding the hands why are there so many wild, lucky, sloppy haymakers?
I had a list of links of some of the well known MMA fighters and that's what I see.
I don't have to post them because anyone can see the flaws in many MMA guys handwork. I also get the same opinion from one former pro boxer and one present pro boxer that I know. I'm not taking anything for the heart/stamina, etc., you have to have to fight but I'm not impressed with the hands like some people here who think that MMA people are invincible. My experience it the WC hands are better. But some will never agree and that's their prerogative.

[HumbleWCGuy]

MMA striking is just above toughman quality for the most part.

[Phil Redmond]

I'm trying not to name drop but a boxer friend of mine said "exactly" the same thing.

[lkfmdc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlJvo5R-Wqs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nBoQgeKP-0

If you think he's just "tough man" .......

[HumbleWCGuy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlJvo5R-Wqs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nBoQgeKP-0

If you think he's just "tough man" .......

If you will recall, I said, "For the most part,". That allows for exceptions to the rule. It's obvious that I was speaking about the average quality of the striking in the sport.

[Tao Of The Fist]

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;992218]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlJvo5R-WqsQUOTE]

0:04-0:09 if you keep repeating that it makes a pretty nice beat I think

[HumbleWCGuy]

MMA striking is not at the pinnacle of striking. The real problem is that it is interpreted as the pinnacle of striking by people who have trained striking inconsistently, haphazardly, or for a short time.

[goju]

me and frost got into a debate over that i think its is his catch thread if anyone wants to read it

but supposedly they have to punch like that

even though there are quite a few mma fighters out there who use crisp clean kicking and punching which pretty much cancels out the notion loopy punches are a must

i personally blame it on lack of quality stand up coaches

[SAAMAG]

There are few of the MMA guys who are learning to strike better. Guys like Silva, Machida, Penn, and GSP are all champions because they all have not only good strikes, but great precision and timing. The remainder of MMA though, is far below average quality. To be fair you have to remember that most MMA guys are wrestlers and BJJ'ers who learn striking, as opposed to strikers who learn grappling. The sport is consistently growing in overall skill level though. It wasn't long ago when no one knew how to beat a grappler and keep it standing. Now you see a lot more standup because the strikers are learning to counter the grapplers. Give it time. They'll get better as a whole.

One of the things that makes MMA a good testing platform, is that universal truths make themselves evident and you will see a h0m0genization of techniques because what works works.

Though MMA is not the end all be all of skill testing (because it is limited by rules); it's probably the closest thing we have to real life one-on-one combat in terms of pressure testing.

[SAAMAG]

me and frost got into a debate over that i think its is his catch thread if anyone wants to read it

but supposedly they have to punch like that

even though there are quite a few mma fighters out there who use crisp clean kicking and punching which pretty much cancels out the notion loopy punches are a must

i personally blame it on lack of quality stand up coaches

One of the reasons for the wide loopy punches is because those punches are only meant to get the grappler close enough to get a takedown. It's to bridge the gap so to speak. Punches like Fedor's casting punch for example. It's taught in many an MMA gym too.

The other reason is, you're right...there could be poor boxing trainers. But then these are all boxing coaches...I'd think that some of them have to have some skill to be able to teach.

Another reason is that the standup is just now making itself more pronounced. As standup fighting becomes more prominant in MMA, you will probably see the striking hopefully get closer to K-1 levels....but until then....we'll have to settle for watching them progress over time.

[Wayfaring]

Some people think if it's not MMA then it's no good. The MMA ground game can be fantastic but regarding the hands why are there so many wild, lucky, sloppy haymakers?
I had a list of links of some of the well known MMA fighters and that's what I see.
I don't have to post them because anyone can see the flaws in many MMA guys handwork. I also get the same opinion from one former pro boxer and one present pro boxer that I know. I'm not taking anything for the heart/stamina, etc., you have to have to fight but I'm not impressed with the hands like some people here who think that MMA people are invincible. My experience it the WC hands are better. But some will never agree and that's their prerogative.

You have somewhat of a point there. There are a couple categories:

1) BJJ background - unfortunately many of these guys have poor hands. The Royce approach to hands won't cut it today. Rolles Gracie is the latest example of this.
2) Good wrestlers - with constant pressure, takedowns, cage work they can get away with sloppier hands.

Also, the top fighters don't seem to be top 5% in one category, they are more top 20% in all categories. I've heard a MT coach say that none of the top MMA guys are in the top 10 in MT strikers - they couldn't hang with the top Dutch or Thai guys under those rules. They also couldn't hang with good boxers under those rules.

However, the threat of takedowns and the ground game definitely changes the approach to hands. Pro boxers can let their hands go because the worst that will happen is clinching up and a ref separating them. There is no threat there of losing a fight from the clinch. Actually one interesting example there is the Tyson Buster Douglas fight - clinch for 13 rounds getting him backing up, then a KO.

With the haymakers, overhand punches and looping hooks, actually if they time them right, they are a safer bet than a closer range punch in MMA if they can get their opponent coming in. Fedor's last 2 fights with Arlovski and Rogers are examples of that. You can't call that luck 2X in a row. Or wild - both hit the button.

[HumbleWCGuy]

One of the reasons for the wide loopy punches is because those punches are only meant to get the grappler close enough to get a takedown. It's to bridge the gap so to speak. Punches like Fedor's casting punch for example. It's taught in many an MMA gym too.

The other reason is, you're right...there could be poor boxing trainers. But then these are all boxing coaches...I'd think that some of them have to have some skill to be able to teach.

Another reason is that the standup is just now making itself more pronounced. As standup fighting becomes more prominant in MMA, you will probably see the striking hopefully get closer to K-1 levels....but until then....we'll have to settle for watching them progress over time.

Sloppy, looping strikes do not bridge more effectively than crisp straight strikes. I assume that you are just repeating what someone said, but there are many ways to bridge to grapple without being haphazard or sloppy.

K-1 has it's problems too. When I see Ernesto Hoost get dropped by Bob Sapp, I have to wonder. In pro boxing, Sapp would never fight in anything above 4 rounds.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Randy Couture has evolved in to one of the more solid boxers in mma. All he is doing is pretty much solid golden gloves boxing hands up, jabs, and basic combinations.

[goju]

Sloppy, looping strikes do not bridge more effectively than crisp straight strikes. I assume that you are just repeating what someone said, but there are many ways to bridge to grapple without being haphazard or sloppy.

K-1 has it's problems too. When I see Ernesto Hoost get dropped by Bob Sapp, I have to wonder. In pro boxing, Sapp would never fight in anything above 4 rounds.

supposedly theres also a theory that this 'casting punch" was actually just an imitation of igor vovchanchyns ridgehand type strike


igor was asked if he thinks this theory that fedor and others who use this punch were influenced by him and his peculiar hand strike and he thought it was indeed a possibilty he even claimed it was common after he became popular to see people in japans gyms trying to imitate that type of strike

[HumbleWCGuy]

supposedly theres also a theory that this 'casting punch" was actually just an imitation of igor vovchanchyns ridgehand type strike


igor was asked if he thinks this theory that fedor and others who use this punch were influenced by him and his peculiar hand strike and he thought it was indeed a possibilty he even claimed it was common after he became popular to see people in japans gyms trying to imitate that type of strike

I have been throwing the "casting punch' for nearly all of my martial arts career. I always considered it a ridge hand variant. In fact, it was the second looping technique that I learned to use.