MMA hands

[m1k3]

The casting punch is a standard part of Sambo. I also think that one of the reasons you don't see a whole lot of combinations is a combination of fear of takedowns and the small gloves.

MMA striking is more like bare knuckle boxing. It tends to be long range and more power shots than jabs. If either fighter gets inside it immediatly switches to clinch fighting, either mauy thai with lots of knees or wrestling with takedowns. In bare knuckle boxing throws were allowed so little or no clinch fighting (punches) developed there either.

Jabs can be dangerous because a good wrestler will follow the jab back with a single leg takedown shot, so if you hit you must do some damage to discourage the shot. Jabs came about in boxing after the throws and grappling were removed from the rules.

Edit: Another thing that makes combinations difficult is that wrestlers will shot immediatley after a punch and if you get caught in the takedown attempt while throwing your straight right following the jab you are scr3wed.

[t_niehoff]

So if you disagree with the assessment of the technical expertise then please explain to use why off-balance, telegraphed, and looping punches at a high rate are justifiable "adjustments" for mma from standard boxing/kickboxing. Thus far the rationalizations don't seem to hold up to scrutiny. As WCers, kickboxing to standing grappling should be right in our wheel house.

Look, MMA fighters -- especially those at the higher levels -- have top quality boxing, MT, wrestling, etc. coaches. They are getting excellent training and instruction. Do they make mistakes? Sure. That's the nature of fighting. You see the same things in boxing, kickboxing. And as I said, some aren't trying to be great boxers, they just want enough to take it to the ground.

WCK is NOT kickboxing and doesn't have kickboxing tools. That's why when WCK people fight/spar at noncontact they don't "look" like WCK -- they're not using WCK tools.

[t_niehoff]

The casting punch is a standard part of Sambo. I also think that one of the reasons you don't see a whole lot of combinations is a combination of fear of takedowns and the small gloves.

MMA striking is more like bare knuckle boxing. It tends to be long range and more power shots than jabs. If either fighter gets inside it immediatly switches to clinch fighting, either mauy thai with lots of knees or wrestling with takedowns. In bare knuckle boxing throws were allowed so little or no clinch fighting (punches) developed there either.

Jabs can be dangerous because a good wrestler will follow the jab back with a single leg takedown shot, so if you hit you must do some damage to discourage the shot. Jabs came about in boxing after the throws and grappling were removed from the rules.

Everything you said is correct.

[sanjuro_ronin]

To simple echo was was already stated by a few like Frost and M1K3, MMA striking is just that, MMA striking.
It is NOT boxing, or KB or MT, it is unique to MMA.
Boxers and boxing coaches are notorious for their ragging on MMA striking, heck even I STILL do it at times, but the fact is, you try to strike in correct boxing from you will get taken down and beat far more easily, as been shown over and over.
MMA requires a more stable and wider stance with less forward leaning than a typical boxing stance or even a MT/KB stance.
You need a hybrid wrestling/KB stances and you want deliver much power with strike done in a "correct" boxing manner from that stance.
In many ways the "looping and long arm" strikes of CLF or even HK lend themselves better to MMA than do classical boxing.
The fact that the bets strikers in MMA have a solid "traditional" striking background BEFORE they adapted to MMA simple shows that a strong core in a "classical" striking system builds a far better "power platform" than what is typiclaly taught in MMA from the get go.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Look, MMA fighters -- especially those at the higher levels -- have top quality boxing, MT, wrestling, etc. coaches.

No they don't.

[Frost]

No they don't.

yes they do, i know the guys that coach the tp guys in the UK, and they are all pro thai coaches, hell some of the fighters go to holland and train with the top teams on a regular basis

[Frost]

The casting punch is a standard part of Sambo. I also think that one of the reasons you don't see a whole lot of combinations is a combination of fear of takedowns and the small gloves.

MMA striking is more like bare knuckle boxing. It tends to be long range and more power shots than jabs. If either fighter gets inside it immediatly switches to clinch fighting, either mauy thai with lots of knees or wrestling with takedowns. In bare knuckle boxing throws were allowed so little or no clinch fighting (punches) developed there either.

Jabs can be dangerous because a good wrestler will follow the jab back with a single leg takedown shot, so if you hit you must do some damage to discourage the shot. Jabs came about in boxing after the throws and grappling were removed from the rules.

Edit: Another thing that makes combinations difficult is that wrestlers will shot immediatley after a punch and if you get caught in the takedown attempt while throwing your straight right following the jab you are scr3wed.

its easy to see who on this site has actually trained with some MMA guys, nice post

[Frost]

To simple echo was was already stated by a few like Frost and M1K3, MMA striking is just that, MMA striking.
It is NOT boxing, or KB or MT, it is unique to MMA.
Boxers and boxing coaches are notorious for their ragging on MMA striking, heck even I STILL do it at times, but the fact is, you try to strike in correct boxing from you will get taken down and beat far more easily, as been shown over and over.
MMA requires a more stable and wider stance with less forward leaning than a typical boxing stance or even a MT/KB stance.
You need a hybrid wrestling/KB stances and you want deliver much power with strike done in a "correct" boxing manner from that stance.
In many ways the "looping and long arm" strikes of CLF or even HK lend themselves better to MMA than do classical boxing.
The fact that the bets strikers in MMA have a solid "traditional" striking background BEFORE they adapted to MMA simple shows that a strong core in a "classical" striking system builds a far better "power platform" than what is typiclaly taught in MMA from the get go.

Gosh its nice when someone who has actually trained and faught NHB comes on here and talks sense

[HumbleWCGuy]

There are essentially two types of upright in mma boxing with kicks and kickboxing. If a school is not teaching kickboxing the instructor is downgraded just by that fact almost irrespective of pedigree. Old karateka and boxing coaches teach boxing with kicks. MT and some Kung Fu men teach kickboxing. They are a world apart.

[Frost]

There are essentially two types of upright in mma boxing with kicks and kickboxing. If a school is not teaching kickboxing the instructor is downgraded just by that fact almost irrespective of pedigree. Old karateka and boxing coaches teach boxing with kicks. MT and some Kung Fu men teach kickboxing. They are a world apart.

sorry i am not getting your point here, the stnad up in MMA can be split into two groups that is true, but the slpit is between the stand up that works and the stand up that does not

a school is downgraded if non of its guys compete or do well in competition, if they do well they are respected and people will go and learn from them because fighters are always looking for an edge

[HumbleWCGuy]

yes they do, i know the guys that coach the tp guys in the UK, and they are all pro thai coaches, hell some of the fighters go to holland and train with the top teams on a regular basis

If they are going to Holland or TL then they are getting trained. If they are using guys in the U.K. not likely. Top coaches in a sport stay in their sport for the most part. Top coaches are not that interested in teaching people who can't or won't master their art.

[HumbleWCGuy]

sorry i am not getting your point here, the stnad up in MMA can be split into two groups that is true, but the slpit is between the stand up that works and the stand up that does not

a school is downgraded if non of its guys compete or do well in competition, if they do well they are respected and people will go and learn from them because fighters are always looking for an edge

Exactly.....

[HumbleWCGuy]

To simple echo was was already stated by a few like Frost and M1K3, MMA striking is just that, MMA striking.
It is NOT boxing, or KB or MT, it is unique to MMA.
Boxers and boxing coaches are notorious for their ragging on MMA striking, heck even I STILL do it at times, but the fact is, you try to strike in correct boxing from you will get taken down and beat far more easily, as been shown over and over.
MMA requires a more stable and wider stance with less forward leaning than a typical boxing stance or even a MT/KB stance.
You need a hybrid wrestling/KB stances and you want deliver much power with strike done in a "correct" boxing manner from that stance.
In many ways the "looping and long arm" strikes of CLF or even HK lend themselves better to MMA than do classical boxing.
The fact that the bets strikers in MMA have a solid "traditional" striking background BEFORE they adapted to MMA simple shows that a strong core in a "classical" striking system builds a far better "power platform" than what is typiclaly taught in MMA from the get go.

Given allowances for adjustments to mma, the striking is not premium.

[m1k3]

???

Neither of your choices is suitable for MMA because of the rules. Wrestling has a huge impact on the way you stike and striking has a huge impact on the way you wrestle.

The strikers can not use their typical stances because they will get taken down and gnp'ed.

Wrestlers can not use their typical stances or their faces become nothing more than targets for knees and low kicks.

Both styles had to change because of the rules.

[Frost]

If they are going to Holland or TL then they are getting trained. If they are using guys in the U.K. not likely. Top coaches in a sport stay in their sport for the most part. Top coaches are not that interested in teaching people who can't or won't master their art.

top guys also go where the money is, at the moment in the UK MMA pays more than Thai so the trainers don't mind training the guys for a cut of the purse