Ron Paul Wins Presidential Straw Poll at CPAC

[dimethylsea]

At least we get something out of our investment, national security. What do we get out of the billions spent annually on social programs? Nothing. And if anything, it's made it worse.

Um... building bridges and highway, powerplants and hospitals has made it worse? Making sure the poor can have health checkups and pre-natal care. Making sure old people have heat in their house in winter. These are useless?

How exactly are these more useless than something which is built to destroy things?

If we do that, then who is supposed to protect our freedoms from our enemies?

Our enemies can't exactly invade successfully (I mean.. we have ALOT of citizens, myself included, with guns!). A continental invasion of the US would be like sticking their d*ck in a meatgrinder. Our enemies are not a threat to our freedoms inside our borders. Internationally.. well why spend 40% of the budget on things happening in other countries. They are sovreign nations.. it's THEIR D*MN BUSINESS what they do. Leave them to it.

Please do. Or are you like that idiot Alec Baldwin who swore he was leaving if GWB became President? Of course he never followed through despite Bush serving TWO terms.

I dunno about Baldwin, I don't pay attention to movie celebrities. Anyway I'm of a mind that this here is a sinking ship and the wise rat will look for a boat that isn't overloaded with cannon (defense spending) at the cost of it's buoyancy (fiat currency supply).

FYI, defense contractors are still making huge profits under Obama. It's just different companies now.

I know. The problem is institutional, intractable, and likely won't go away while America is still one of the world's dominant economies. Americans are usually too short-sighted.

One side wants lots of tanks, One side wants lots of social programs. The poor and middle class can't pay for either. The "Tanks" side doesn't want the rich to pay for it. The "social" side DOES want the rich to pay for it.

The only thing they can agree on is to spend more money. Oh.. and just put it on the tab!

[dimethylsea]

C'mon dawg even you have got to see Obamas history is full of holes, lacks experiance doing anything, how is this guy accumulated the wealth he has, he has never had a job that would pay him that kind of money. .

Please substantiate this. Saying Obama is rich without an explanation for the money is a new one.

He was a law school professor, an author, and his wife was a lawyer also. Seems like they could be expected to have a bit of money put back if they were thrifty types.

[GeneChing]

I welcome your political discussions here, but we've had a lot of complaints. So, in order to keep the peace, I've drawn a line in the cybersand here. Please take note.

[1bad65]

Um... building bridges and highway, powerplants and hospitals has made it worse? Making sure the poor can have health checkups and pre-natal care. Making sure old people have heat in their house in winter. These are useless?

Public works projects are not social programs. FYI, those are piad for with gasoline taxes, vehicle registration fees, tolls, and vehicle inspection fees. If you choose not to drive a vehicle, you are not being forced to contribute to those programs. Social program money comes mainly from income tax money.

If you can't afford pre-natal care, wouldn't a rational solution be to not get pregnant? What happened to common sense and taking care of your own problems? My parents are older, and they don't need the Government to help pay their bills. My father worked all his life, they lived responsibly and within their means, and set up their retirement so they could afford to live when they got old. Why should they be forced to pay for those who didn't choose to live responsibly?

[KC Elbows]

If you want a society, you're stuck caring for the people in it. If you want chaos, look out for your own. Every family has those who contribute a lot, and those who contribute less. But every society that leaves an appreciable number out on a limb falls.

To keep this on topic, Mencius suggested that it is in our nature to care for others, and to fight this is inviting disaster. Today, we have christians who want authority and money, politicians who want office at the small cost of lip service(like the bulk of republican politicians who approved of the supreme court decision that corporations can contribute unlimited amounts to campaign ads, while 78% of republican voters hold the opposite view, or the 2006 elections, where dems got in congress on a mandate regarding the war and then ignored the mandate), a citizenry that conflates freedom with gluttony and would thus rather bankroll both extremist islam and expansionist policy in order to not walk a couple blocks to the store.

Exactly how do we compete without paying our people as little as China pays theirs? No one is voting that in, but that's the elephant in the room. We simultaneously make too much and provide for too many American cash cows we buy things from. Neither party will solve this in time, because it's not in their interests to do so.

Sometimes, the best solution is hard times. The last ten years, there's been too much emphasis on our golden age as being from the WWII generation, but who we're talking about is really the children of the depression. The generation in China that raised it up were first the children of the 1911 revolution, and now the children of the cultural revolution, people who know the real value of things from not having them. Gluttony has only one result, and the communists and the christians, for all their mutual lunacy, spelled it out pretty well.

[David Jamieson]

How smart of me. What benefits do you think we get from the social programs?

And why do you liberals keep bringing race into the discussion?

benefits?

Civilization with an articulate, erudite and intelligent population that has will, drive, motivation, compassion and the ability to pass that along.

Why do you insist on dividing people into little groups.

You're all Americans in context are you not?

You have to get to the common ground and that is it.

[1bad65]

Exactly how do we compete without paying our people as little as China pays theirs? No one is voting that in, but that's the elephant in the room.

The main reason jobs are outsourced is not labor cost, it's to avoid the crippling taxes and regulations here in the US.

I misread KC's answer, so I edited the post.

[1bad65]

Civilization with an articulate, erudite and intelligent population that has will, drive, motivation, compassion and the ability to pass that along.

How does it give people drive and motivation to reward them for their mistakes?

The way welfare works now is ridiculous. Let's say you have an 18 year old girl. She is legally an adult, but is still young enough she will likely make mistakes that could haunt her for a long time. Now this girl is having unprotected sex with her 32 year old, unemployed boyfriend. And now she gets pregnant and has a kid. The boyfriend leaves, and now the State (ie the taxpayers) gives her welfare to help out a young girl who screwed up. For the sake of argument, let's both agree that this is compassionate. Now 2 years later the same girl is pregnant again by another bum, and again the father leaves her. Now the State, the taxpayers, give her MORE money. Is this right?

Why do you insist on dividing people into little groups.

People divide themselves into groups. Liberals, conservatives, Christians, agnostics, Muslims, anti-war, pro-war, pro-life, abortion rights, etc. I just point out that fact. How does that make me a bad guy?

Also, I recall being called a "Neo con" repeatedly, and by you no less. Don't be hypocritical. If you are upset over something, stop contributing to the problem.

[David Jamieson]

How does it give people drive and motivation to reward them for their mistakes?

The way welfare works now is ridiculous. Let's say you have an 18 year old girl. She is legally an adult, but is still young enough she will likely make mistakes that could haunt her for a long time. Now this girl is having unprotected sex with her 32 year old, unemployed boyfriend. And now she gets pregnant and has a kid. The boyfriend leaves, and now the State (ie the taxpayers) gives her welfare to help out a young girl who screwed up. For the sake of argument, let's both agree that this is compassionate. Now 2 years later the same girl is pregnant again by another bum, and again the father leaves her. Now the State, the taxpayers, give her MORE money. Is this right?



People divide themselves into groups. Liberals, conservatives, Christians, agnostics, Muslims, anti-war, pro-war, pro-life, abortion rights, etc. I just point out that fact. How does that make me a bad guy?

Also, I recall being called a "Neo con" repeatedly, and by you no less. Don't be hypocritical. If you are upset over something, stop contributing to the problem.

Welfare and unemployment benefits are not a reward. You are having an error in your thikning if you think it's a rewards.

You then go on to make up scenarios that you personally find distasteful and apply those mixed up thoughts to a whole lot of people who each have differing circumstances that brought them to the hardship in their life.

I'm thinking that you fit the profile of a sociopath at this point with some of the things you write about your attitudes towards those people whoa re less fortunate than others.

yes, there will be abuses. BUt are they the problem? NO. You literally have not lost much of your paycheque to welfare recipients 1bad.

really, why not deal with just the raw numbers from the budget? It is ridiculously miniscule.

I don't know what has made you so cruel and heartless...apparently neither do you. I don't have a problem with being taxed to ensure that my country doesn't be come half middle class / hal slum which is what your thinking on teh matter will bring.

Maybe you should move to India? you'd love it there. lol no middle class at all for the most part, just a great chasm across which the wealthy throw scraps to the poor.

Or maybe the free range of capitalism of Somalia attracts you?
Your ideas certainly aren't American in flavour that's for sure.

[Drake]

Welfare and unemployment benefits are not a reward. You are having an error in your thikning if you think it's a rewards.

You then go on to make up scenarios that you personally find distasteful and apply those mixed up thoughts to a whole lot of people who each have differing circumstances that brought them to the hardship in their life.

I'm thinking that you fit the profile of a sociopath at this point with some of the things you write about your attitudes towards those people whoa re less fortunate than others.

yes, there will be abuses. BUt are they the problem? NO. You literally have not lost much of your paycheque to welfare recipients 1bad.

really, why not deal with just the raw numbers from the budget? It is ridiculously miniscule.

I don't know what has made you so cruel and heartless...apparently neither do you. I don't have a problem with being taxed to ensure that my country doesn't be come half middle class / hal slum which is what your thinking on teh matter will bring.

Maybe you should move to India? you'd love it there. lol no middle class at all for the most part, just a great chasm across which the wealthy throw scraps to the poor.

Or maybe the free range of capitalism of Somalia attracts you?
Your ideas certainly aren't American in flavour that's for sure.

What is cruel and heartless about being opposed to socialism? This country was founded on being free to make your own way. It's designed for self-starters and those who believe that what they earn through their own hard work belongs to them. Sure, they understand that some of their income has to be given up for police, roads, and fire departments. But why should anyone have to give up their income become people eat like crap, get Type II Diabetes, and can't afford for their own self-inflicted problem? I could just as easily say that it is cruel and heartless to take the hard earned income from people and give it away to something they don't agree with, without their consent.

Big, flowery over-dramaticized expressions of the poor being trampled by the rich does not a successful argument make. We don't do royalty here. You can be born with a silver spoon, sure, but if you aren't cautious, you could be living in a cardboard box, because a "poor" person just outsmarted your business practices. You know, like Bill Gates did.

[1bad65]

Welfare and unemployment benefits are not a reward. You are having an error in your thikning if you think it's a rewards.

Unemployment benefits are not welfare. Money comes out of every paycheck I get for unemployment. Also, there is a time limit on unemployment benefits, but not on welfare. Also, if you are self-employed and you lose your business, you are NOT eligible for unemployment. Did you know that?

And FYI, when you give someone money for the things they do, you are rewarding their behavior.

You then go on to make up scenarios that you personally find distasteful and apply those mixed up thoughts to a whole lot of people who each have differing circumstances that brought them to the hardship in their life.

I'm not making up anything. Plenty of people here have two illigitimate kids before they are 21. FYI, the illigitimacy rate in our country exploded AFTER welfare was made available in ALL races. However, it is well over 50% in the black community. Legitimate civil rights leaders (not Jackson and Sharpton who have made civil rights their lucrative careers) will say welfare has destroyed the traditional family structure in the black community.

I'm thinking that you fit the profile of a sociopath at this point with some of the things you write about your attitudes towards those people whoa re less fortunate than others.

So someone wanting to keep the fruits of their labor is a sociopath????

yes, there will be abuses. BUt are they the problem? NO. You literally have not lost much of your paycheque to welfare recipients 1bad.

I shouldn't have to give up ANY of it for welfare.

I don't know what has made you so cruel and heartless...apparently neither do you. I don't have a problem with being taxed to ensure that my country doesn't be come half middle class / hal slum which is what your thinking on teh matter will bring.

Maybe you should move to India? you'd love it there. lol no middle class at all for the most part, just a great chasm across which the wealthy throw scraps to the poor.

Again, you have no idea what time, money, etc I give to charity. So get off your high horse.

Second, my boss is from India. He and his wife live in a "rich" neighborhood, and make well over $250k/year. He thinks alot like I do. He says punishing achievement is what messed up alot of societies, and we better stop doing that here. Also my boss, who has achieved the 'American Dream, has never taken a dime of welfare money. Yet he has succeeded in America. How do you explain that?

Your ideas certainly aren't American in flavour that's for sure.

Your ignorance of OUR Constitution is sad. Read our founding documents and tell me that I'm not "American in flavour".