Straight from the mouth of Oom Young Doe--Ba Gua Chang?? LOL>

[LaterthanNever]

This and other stories have come into Chinese culture through a strong oral tradition. What is fact may never be determined. However, the fact remains that Bagwa movement exists and many of those who practice Bagwa movement have found that the increased internal and external strength they have developed has benefited their daily lives tremendously.One legend is that Bagwa was the name of a man born in a remote province of China over 1500 years ago. At a young age Bagwa traveled into the mountains to learn. From his training and study of nature, Bagwa reached a point of tremendous internal and external strength and ability. One night in a dream, Bagwa saw the province in peril from an impending invasion. He came down from the mountains to warn the Royal family and offer his assistance to help protect the kingdom.
The School of Oom Yung Doe, The Grandmaster Iron Kim

At that time, during a crisis, it was common for people of all different positions, of all different ages, man, woman, and child alike to come to the aid of the Royal family to protect the kingdom. Bagwa was one of many individuals who offered to help. With the Royal Familiy's permission, his task was to build a strong army to protect the kingdom. With his knowledge and training, he was able to assemble an army in one tenth the time normally necessary. Each solder was taught the knowledge and skill to be a qualified general.When the time came to do battle, this elite fighting force easily defeated the opposing force about one hundred times as strong. Bagwa had saved the kingdom and made the province a better place for its people. The King's main wish had always been his concern for the protection of each citizen and after the opposing army was defeated he felt that the needs of the Kingdom would best serveed if Bagwa would take the throne. With his head down the King offered the throne to Bagwa whom he respected. Bagwa's humbled response was that he was still learning and that he had a long way to go and wished to return to the mountains and continue his training. He could not accept this victory with pride and was troubled with the thought that others would remember him as a great warrior.The King then asked Bagwa what he should do to protect the kingdom if there was another threat. Bagwa agreed to stay 100 days to further train many prominent citizens of the kingdom, including higher nobility, priests, offers, and other leaders involved in protecting the kingdom. Legend has it that some of these individuals never passed down the knowledge of Bagwa movement, while others further developed the practice of Bagwa and secretly passed that knowledge down from generation to generation in their own family line. Over the centuries it is believed that the knowledge of Bagwa movement was secretly passed down until a few hundred years ago, when it began to be taught more openly to the public.When Bagwa finally left, he respectfully bowed to the King. As he slowly walked away in a peculiar stepping manner, the King called after him, asking him questions. There was no response. Only Bagwa's rhythmic breathing that sounded like BAAAG WAAA! BAAAG WAAA! BAAAG WAAA! Within a short distance from the town, the King saw his body disappear, almost as if it floated away.This special, circular walking position was derived from the movements of different animals and is called Bagwa Walk. The original form, consisted of over 70 positions, has been expanded and passed down over the centuries to encompass many different offensive and defensive positions.This legend has been passed down from generation to generation through a rich oral tradition from the time of the Han Dynasty.

also, does Ba Gua have the cross leg/scissor stance in any of its' applications? I thought no. Observe some of the stances from this webpage of OYD: http://www.oomyungdoe-nw.com/8martia...ung/index.html

As Joan River says: "Talk amonst yourselves"..LOL

[B-Rad]

You could probably find a pretty big Oom Young Doe/Chung Moo Doe thread exposing these guys if you do a search.

[houstonwriter.c]

Ummm... That's quite a story.

[Dale Dugas]

Chung Mu Doe, Om Yang Doe, 18 Martial arts as One.

All a bunch of BS crap.

Kim was jailed for tax evasion, and other Federal charges.

I trained some people who told me totally whacked out stories.

Their Baguazhang was nothing of the sort.

Horrible structure, no idea what was supposed to be happening.

[MartialDev]

Unfortunately, in the United States today, there are many schools teaching fabricated movement (movement or forms made up by the instructor or mixed with exercises and athletics). These forms are not tested or proven to be of any positive benefit. In fact, with fabricated movement, no matter how long you exercise, you will only develop partially and in many cases the result can be damage or unbalanced development.

Someone who teaches fabricated (experimented) movement should have to pay those they experiment on, not the other way around.

Here are some of the causes of fabricated movement:

* When an Instructor who takes from many different martial arts styles trying to join them into one (unbalanced martial art style).
* When styles are mixed, one does movement only in part without proper combination.

[KTS]

wow, just everything possible about that story is wrong.

i have seen an ad for this branch in my local yellow pages. i thought for a minute, but nah, i didnt wanna get my hands dirty. it just is not worth it.

if people do not do their research and get suckered into this kinda stuff, i can only shake my head.

hope they at least get some benefits of exercise from it, or something.

and yeah, it is pretty sad.

andy, well, that could be, his not knowing what "bagua" means. but too much is wrong. the whole story, and i do mean the whole story - every single part!
"Only Bagwa's rhythmic breathing that sounded like BAAAG WAAA! BAAAG WAAA! BAAAG WAAA"

this ^ is just laughable!!!!!
but i just dont get the feel that he doesnt know what these terms mean. one second alone of research is enough. this just has the feel to it like a ride through the BS side.

[cmarsho]

From http://www.760kfmb.com/Global/story.asp?S=12338432 ...

A local martial arts group is being accused of using intimidation and coercion to rip off students. One local student has filed a lawsuit, alleging she lost thousands of dollars to the organization.

It's called Oom Yung Doe, a martial arts school on Balboa Avenue in Clairemont. The school is covered with photographs of its spiritual leader, John C. Kim. One former student is now suing the school's associates and instructors.

"I thought they were people with integrity. They claim to be, that's how they present themselves," Vivien Francis said.

Francis believes she was intimidated and even brainwashed into giving the Oom Yung Doe organization $47,000.

"They promised me they were going to revise the ownership of the school and make me part owner of the school," she said.

[TenTigers]

there is a Bellvue branch. That should tell you something.
Is there a Creedmore Branch?
Maybe a Pilgrim State Branch?
(NY humor...)

[taai gihk yahn]

there is a Bellvue branch. That should tell you something.
Is there a Creedmore Branch?
Maybe a Pilgrim State Branch?
(NY humor...)

LOL - Parella grew up near Creedmore, had some interesting stories about local day-patients; I drive by Pilgrim State every morning, sometimes through part of it the Sag's backed up - it would b the perfect setting for some kind of creepy movie...

[TenTigers]

yeah, that place always gave me the willys! Huge, dark, and looming...just creepy.

[MasterKiller]

As a Korean, Master Iron Kim might not have known that bagua is the common Chinese word for "octagon".

I have sparred one of his blackbelt students mma style. This guys was completely convinced that Master Kim could jump off of a 30 story building and live. He also said that he was taught shaolin kung fu. He tried to poke out my eyes and started the fight while I was changing my shoes. None of this helped him in the least. I felt bad for him actually. I was able to pull off dramatic moves like I was in a kung fu movie. His attacks were strait, stiff and predictable. It seriously looked like an aikido demonstration. He was flipping around and getting locked up. I choked him out at one point. He had paid some big bucks for personal training and his abilities were worse than that of a beginner.


www.kungfuchengdu.com

It's pretty common in Korea for them to mangle the Chinese names of forms/styles/moves.

[MartialDev]

Coincidentally, Oom Yung Doe is "today's featured school" at http://www.dojoscore.com/ .

[kung fu fighter]

there is a Bellvue branch. That should tell you something.
Is there a Creedmore Branch?
Maybe a Pilgrim State Branch?
(NY humor...)

LOL, that's funny as hell!! for those of you that don't know BellVue is the name of insanity asilum.

[taai gihk yahn]

LOL, that's funny as hell!! for those of you that don't know BellVue is the name of insanity asilum.

not quite; it's the name of the city (as opposed to private) hospital in NYC that houses the psych ward where they take any of the crazies picked up by the cops; Creedmore and Pilgrim State are actually institutions devoted exclusively to psychiatric populations;

[Tao Of The Fist]

not quite; it's the name of the city (as opposed to private) hospital in NYC that houses the psych ward where they take any of the crazies picked up by the cops; Creedmore and Pilgrim State are actually institutions devoted exclusively to psychiatric populations;

Way to kill a joke with political correctness.