Strongest punch?

[Matrix]

I do actually...but It ends up being more jkd-ish

I'm not really sure what you mean by "jkd-ish", but my only concern is that you achieve effective results.

WC does not necessarily need to look a certain way. In otherwords, standing there with your hands sticking out in a guard position does not make something more or less WC, in my opinion. That's what I meant by standing on ceremony. You don't need to adopt some posture like your posing for something, and doing so may compromise your results.

[anerlich]

My first instructor could hit me with a WC punch while I was holding 3 telephone books on my chest and still wind me. He could smash eight roof tiles with a backfist as well.

How powerful does it have to be?

I'd agree the cross is probably easier to generate power with for the untrained, but if you're doing 1000 punches a day for a few years the WC way you may well get better at that.

[SAAMAG]

I'm not really sure what you mean by "jkd-ish", but my only concern is that you achieve effective results.

WC does not necessarily need to look a certain way. In otherwords, standing there with your hands sticking out in a guard position does not make something more or less WC, in my opinion. That's what I meant by standing on ceremony. You don't need to adopt some posture like your posing for something, and doing so may compromise your results.

Meaning that I end up punching not in the wing chun sense but more in the straight blast sense. Not exactly the same punch and feels more like one of my boxing punches.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that my wing chun punches are strong, people tend to not like getting hit by them...its the RELATIVE power compared with my overhand that I'm comparing.

Is the wing chun punch as structurally powerful as the overhand? Right now...for me anyway...it seems it may not be. But then again, hitting the bag gives the same feedback, hitting the focus mitts does not.

[SAAMAG]

My first instructor could hit me with a WC punch while I was holding 3 telephone books on my chest and still wind me. He could smash eight roof tiles with a backfist as well.

How powerful does it have to be?

I'd agree the cross is probably easier to generate power with for the untrained, but if you're doing 1000 punches a day for a few years the WC way you may well get better at that.

So in your opinion is it simply a matter of repitition of the proper form that allows your instructor that power? Or is there something more to it?

[Hardwork108]

IMHO, when discussing Wing Chun punching power one cannot ignore the importance of breathing and its role in power generation....

My most powerful WC punch is the same as that of k gledhill, the turning facing strike. Having said that, the hammer fist strike is also a very powerful weapon but needs to be practiced to make it more "natural".

[YungChun]

But then again, hitting the bag gives the same feedback, hitting the focus mitts does not.

IME that is a function of velocity.. A short range strike, employing short power will never have as much velocity as that Reverse Punch or name your similar technique..

The key is to hit with your whole body... and to maximize the incorporation of your total body mass..and joints.. via body alignment (connected mass) and using all those muscles/joints (esp legs) to make that power (sequential summation of motion). Like Mr Miyagi said, secret of power is 'whole body, (into) one inch'. It's all in the forms, you just need to express it in action, but maybe you already are...

I'm sure folks could share some different tools they use to measure and train striking power.. In the old days I used to hang a piece of plywood by some string.. Very tough to break at first..but it can be done.. One of the best ways to get more power when hitting folks is to keep hitting folks.... They will give you plenty of feedback..both verbal and non verbal..

[punchdrunk]

IMO a part of the problem is comparing a "natural" punch to a Wing Chun punch, is comparing a punch with freedom of body movement (stepping, torso twisting, bending or straightening) to a punch with all kinds of limits placed on it. Most Wing Chun punches are stiff and robotic, but they don't need to be.

[Matrix]

So in your opinion is it simply a matter of repitition of the proper form that allows your instructor that power? Or is there something more to it?

The saying goes " repetition is the mother of skill". I would say that is true, IF you a repeating correct action. Certainly form and structure are a significant part of correct action. Others have indicated other keys as well.

To me Relaxation, especially in the shoulders, but throughout the body is critical. You may have have all the form and structure you want, but if you are tight, you kill the power. Think of tension as kinks in a hose. A kink in a hose limits or even cuts off the water flow. You can turn the valve up as high as you can to get maximum power from the water source, but the water power is cut down the line by these points of tension.

That's why I mentioned the word "natural" before. If you think something is natural, you tend to let it flow. If you're trying to achieve a certain effect that you see as unnatural then there might be a tendancy to try and force it and create tension that is counter-productive. The harder you try, the less effective power you have.

Just a suggestion.

[SAAMAG]

IMHO, when discussing Wing Chun punching power one cannot ignore the importance of breathing and its role in power generation....

My most powerful WC punch is the same as that of k gledhill, the turning facing strike. Having said that, the hammer fist strike is also a very powerful weapon but needs to be practiced to make it more "natural".

What do you attribute as the primary factor for that punch being your hardest?

[SAAMAG]

IMO a part of the problem is comparing a "natural" punch to a Wing Chun punch, is comparing a punch with freedom of body movement (stepping, torso twisting, bending or straightening) to a punch with all kinds of limits placed on it. Most Wing Chun punches are stiff and robotic, but they don't need to be.

Interesting. I practice both the chung kuen and cross the same way, both "natural" and from guard.

Obviously the more alive version of it feels more right but then I've always felt that was a better way to go.

[SAAMAG]

The saying goes " repetition is the mother of skill". I would say that is true, IF you a repeating correct action. Certainly form and structure are a significant part of correct action. Others have indicated other keys as well.

To me Relaxation, especially in the shoulders, but throughout the body is critical. You may have have all the form and structure you want, but if you are tight, you kill the power. Think of tension as kinks in a hose. A kink in a hose limits or even cuts off the water flow. You can turn the valve up as high as you can to get maximum power from the water source, but the water power is cut down the line by these points of tension.

That's why I mentioned the word "natural" before. If you think something is natural, you tend to let it flow. If you're trying to achieve a certain effect that you see as unnatural then there might be a tendancy to try and force it and create tension that is counter-productive. The harder you try, the less effective power you have.

Just a suggestion.

I think there is much wisdom in this post. Thanks for the elab'

[Wayfaring]

To me Relaxation, especially in the shoulders, but throughout the body is critical. You may have have all the form and structure you want, but if you are tight, you kill the power. Think of tension as kinks in a hose. A kink in a hose limits or even cuts off the water flow. You can turn the valve up as high as you can to get maximum power from the water source, but the water power is cut down the line by these points of tension.

I agree with this, and wanted to bring it up in the context of how punching is trained. If you do not train striking in an alive 100% contact environment, then when you do get into an evironment like that, there is a great deal of tension present due to the situation being different than how you train. I see this with fighters - there is a "first fight" experience they all go through - the tension, the adrenaline dump, the narrowing of focus and skillset. People forget to do things in the ring/cage that they know how to do in practice. If you train in an environment similar to that it minimizes this effect.

[Matrix]

I think there is much wisdom in this post. Thanks for the elab'

I don't know about wisdom. I am just offering my thoughts on the topic. It's why we come here. To ask, to listen, to learn. By offering my thoughts to you, I need to articulate them in a way that helps me to clarify my own understanding. I find that whole process interesting.

Thank you

[Matrix]

If you do not train striking in an alive 100% contact environment, then when you do get into an evironment like that, there is a great deal of tension present due to the situation being different than how you train.

Yes, and if you can't relax in a more neutral environment, then you haven't got a hope of being achieving results when you really need them.

[Pacman]

it really depends on how you classify a "wing chun punch". i assume you just use your arm

if you throw your punch without turning your hips or shoulder or putting any body weight into it, then you are just using your arms and of course it will not have as much power compared to a punch thrown with hips and shoulders.

not everyone throws a "wing chun punch" like that

I bring this up because tonight I was working the bag and focus mitts, and my girlfriend stated that the wing chun punch didn't seem to feel like it had as much power as my natural cross.

I asked her "in what way do you mean?" She said when I throw a quick and natural cross (from arms being held naturally at my sides) it radiates through her wrist, elbow, shoulder, and body. She said when I throw the wing chun punch it doesn't feel the same, like it doesn't radiate through her arm as much.

So I tested it on something more resiliant--my heavy bag (not swinging, just solid against the wall). It felt and sounded just as powerful as a natural overhand right...but doing it again on the pads it indeed felt like there wasn't as much feedback--yet structurally everything felt right and all was lined up--elbow, hips, wrist--rooted to the ground.

Possible Factors?

• Pad holder not giving the same feedback for each punch
• The wing chun punch is just weaker by way of design (or you could say the natural punch (cross) is stronger by design)
• Perhaps I did not give enough follow through with my wing chun punch as compared to my natural cross (or perhaps I wasn't close enough to the pad to give it enough penetrating power)
• I did not have enough chi behind it
• My wing chun is terrible and I should just quit now

---

In any case though it got me thinking about puching power...what have you been told your strongest punch was? Doesn't matter if its wing chun or otherwise. I've had my normal partner tell me my overhand right is enough to drop him even with the belly pad on. I've been told by others that the wing chun straight punch is strong, but no where near the same level as the overhand. So while the wing chun punch was considered to be strong by this guy--relatively speaking the boxing punch was simply stronger (in feel through pads)

On a side note do you think that the wing chun punch can be as strong as any other punch in general -- or more specifically the cross? Or do you think that the punch is limited by its design relatively speaking?

Do you depend on li for the power or chi? If its the latter, have you compared the punch with other punches that you learned that might not depend on chi specifically?