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Thread: MMA contests: Are they truly the final test for the effectiveness of an art?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    This has to do with your masturbatory views?
    Why do you Canadians hound me at every turn?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSWCTN1 View Post
    on a side not, my tacher says that wck is not so much about fists, he says putting gloves on limits our arsenal by at least 50%
    So, you’re saying that you can’t punch someone in face in the ring but you’ll be able to poke them in eye or do a palm strike to the throat when you’re not? I don’t buy it. MMA gloves aren’t that big. You can still tan, bong and pak, all of your trapping is there for you, all your elbow strikes are still valid and most of your kicks.

    If you can’t do a gross motor skill under duress in the ring or cage there is no way you will pull off a fine motor skill under the stress of a street fight.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
    So, you’re saying that you can’t punch someone in face in the ring but you’ll be able to poke them in eye or do a palm strike to the throat when you’re not? I don’t buy it. MMA gloves aren’t that big. You can still tan, bong and pak, all of your trapping is there for you, all your elbow strikes are still valid and most of your kicks.

    If you can’t do a gross motor skill under duress in the ring or cage there is no way you will pull off a fine motor skill under the stress of a street fight.
    Additionally, that argument relates to the glove discussion between MK and I on the main page. If you want to train chops and palm strikes, and don't have the tool(gloves, mask, whatever you use), you can design the tool you need without that much trouble. This still precludes finger strikes, but adds more of your moves to what you can train live. If you don't enable that kind of training, it matters little what your style is conceptually when discussing how you can actually use it.

    If you can train 90% of your style, and don't choose to, you can't use the 10% that you must accept limited training on to excuse failing to train into your live reflexes the 90% that you can.

    The reverse is that there is a weakness in the argument that, because X uses strikes, and Y uses strikes, and X uses their tools, and Y needs tools, that X's are perfect for Y's approach. Y may use a more varied approach that requires different tools. If the gloves only allow punches, almost all tma's should find a better tool.
    Last edited by KC Elbows; 03-04-2010 at 11:33 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
    So, you’re saying that you can’t punch someone in face in the ring but you’ll be able to poke them in eye or do a palm strike to the throat when you’re not? I don’t buy it. MMA gloves aren’t that big. You can still tan, bong and pak, all of your trapping is there for you, all your elbow strikes are still valid and most of your kicks.

    If you can’t do a gross motor skill under duress in the ring or cage there is no way you will pull off a fine motor skill under the stress of a street fight.
    good points, but its a nice way for the teacher to keep students even when the style has not proven itself in the ring/cage, simply moan that they don't allow you to use all your weapons and its not fair

  5. #20
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    ya i never bought into the too deadly stuff. everyone is limited by the same rules. you can use just basic striking techniques and you will (which is often the case) be just fine as long as your footwork, timing, etc. are up to par with your opponent.

    more so, IMO, its the lack of competent grappling skills that keep many martial artists away from MMA competitions. Often times people just dont want to admit they are lacking in an area that is so crucial to the competition at hand.

    i cant grapple worth **** and i know it, at least not even near the level i would need to be able to so that i could compete on even ground, but i know it and i can admit it. i have 2 options, either i go learn to grapple, or i dont. thats all there is to it.

    a lot of times its just people cannot confront that 'skeleton in their closet' not willing to admit they will need to go outside their system many times to aquire the skillsets needed to succeed.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  6. #21
    While i can appreciate the masturbating and copulating analogy to wing chun training, I'm not touching that with my ten-foot pole.

    However, the idea that the style doesn't work because of the gloves and becuase it doesn't allow for maiming techniques doesn't really float in my opinion either. Even with those rules and minimal padding there is 95% of the system left over--all of the punches, all of the kicks, all of the bridgework, clinching, chin na, and etc.--and if the majority of people can't make the majority of the system work for them, then there's definitely something amiss.

    But what?

    Sure, we could say that the reason we don't see it is because everyone that practices wing chun today simply don't have the desire to prove themselves in that type of environment. Or that the ones that have tried it failed because of individual deficiences.

    But if it is the style itself...what about the style is causing it not to be successful?
    If it's not the style, is it the training? Could it be simply that more rigorous training that is necessary?
    Last edited by SAAMAG; 03-04-2010 at 03:06 PM.
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."

  7. #22
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    does it really matter at the end of the day?? the purpose of martial arts is to defend yourself from physical aggression and counterattack if needed... unless you are getting your ass kicked daily going about your business, what's the worry of wether it works against someone else according to a set of rules?? why? who the **** really cares?? i'll tell ya who - insecure people that have not come to accept themselves and their role in the grand scheme of things... people who get all bent out of shape and ****ed off because someone looks harder than they do... LOL.. people who probably want to kick my ass. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! pansies... grow up... McMA is for insecure little halfwitted men with ***** envy. got a goatee tapout dude?? LMAO!!

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    does it really matter at the end of the day?? the purpose of martial arts is to defend yourself from physical aggression and counterattack if needed... unless you are getting your ass kicked daily going about your business, what's the worry of wether it works against someone else according to a set of rules?? why? who the **** really cares?? i'll tell ya who - insecure people that have not come to accept themselves and their role in the grand scheme of things... people who get all bent out of shape and ****ed off because someone looks harder than they do... LOL.. people who probably want to kick my ass. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! pansies... grow up... McMA is for insecure little halfwitted men with ***** envy. got a goatee tapout dude?? LMAO!!
    I want whatever you're smoking!!!
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    does it really matter at the end of the day??
    not a darn thing, i could swear off martial arts for the rest of my life tomorrow, probably wont change much since i dont sport fight or get in fights period.

    likewise im in a different situation than a lot of people. i dont have loved ones. the only concern i have is for my own skin. even that changes the gameplan
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  10. #25
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    when people ask if i can kick so and so's a$$ i simply respond, "i dunno, but i'll hurt them."

  11. #26
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    im also a vengeful SOB, i dont pick fights, and im a good person. if i get in a fight its because i was forced to. that means the other person is in the wrong, if they kick my ass, they wont see me later when i take a baseball bat to their knee caps. and they'll deserve it. its how i roll.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    im also a vengeful SOB, i dont pick fights, and im a good person. if i get in a fight its because i was forced to. that means the other person is in the wrong, if they kick my ass, they wont see me later when i take a baseball bat to their knee caps. and they'll deserve it. its how i roll.
    that's not the proper McMA attitude to have.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    that's not the proper McMA attitude to have.

    cry me a river

    sneaky shadow skeelz gotta come in handy sometime
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vankuen View Post
    While i can appreciate the masturbating and copulating analogy to wing chun training, I'm not touching that with my ten-foot pole.

    However, the idea that the style doesn't work because of the gloves and becuase it doesn't allow for maiming techniques doesn't really float in my opinion either. Even with those rules and minimal padding there is 95% of the system left over--all of the punches, all of the kicks, all of the bridgework, clinching, chin na, and etc.--and if the majority of people can't make the majority of the system work for them, then there's definitely something amiss.

    But what?

    Sure, we could say that the reason we don't see it is because everyone that practices wing chun today simply don't have the desire to prove themselves in that type of environment. Or that the ones that have tried it failed because of individual deficiences.

    But if it is the style itself...what about the style is causing it not to be successful?
    If it's not the style, is it the training? Could it be simply that more rigorous training that is necessary?
    go ask those questions on the wing chun forum.... then watch those guys heads explode as they try to answer them

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    ya i never bought into the too deadly stuff. everyone is limited by the same rules. you can use just basic striking techniques and you will (which is often the case) be just fine as long as your footwork, timing, etc. are up to par with your opponent.

    more so, IMO, its the lack of competent grappling skills that keep many martial artists away from MMA competitions. Often times people just dont want to admit they are lacking in an area that is so crucial to the competition at hand.

    i cant grapple worth **** and i know it, at least not even near the level i would need to be able to so that i could compete on even ground, but i know it and i can admit it. i have 2 options, either i go learn to grapple, or i dont. thats all there is to it.

    a lot of times its just people cannot confront that 'skeleton in their closet' not willing to admit they will need to go outside their system many times to aquire the skillsets needed to succeed.
    so why not compete in\k1 or full contact kickboxing if its the grappling that stope people competing?

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