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  1. #1
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    Toxic Chinese medicine

    Given that our poisonous chinese medicine thread got locked down, I'm starting a new thread on this subject. Toxins in OTC TCM is a great concern, especially given dubious regulation standards. It's a very relevant discussion here, not just as a caveat, but also so TCM practitioners and users can dispose of these products properly.

    Page last updated at 09:59 GMT, Tuesday, 2 March 2010
    Harmful Chinese medicine on sale in St Helier

    People in Jersey who have taken a herbal medicine that has been linked to cancer have been urged by the health department to contact their GP.

    Aristolochia, banned under Jersey Law was found in a product at Dr Beijing, St Helier.

    Dr Rosemary Geller, medical officer of health, said it can affect kidneys and urged anyone who had taken "Jing Zhi Ke Sou Tan Chuan Wan" to see a doctor.

    Police said the shop's owner had been cooperative and no arrests were made.

    'Medicine shared'

    Dr Geller said: "I am very concerned that this issue has arisen in Jersey but am confident that action has been taken urgently to loook into the mattter."

    Dr Susan Turnbull, the deputy medical officer of health and police, visited the shop and ensured all the medicine containing the substance have been removed from stock.

    They could identify some customers who had bought the product from shops records and have contacted them.

    Dr Turnball said: "There may be more people who have taken this product than the records suggest.

    "People may also have shared the medication with others believing as the product is herbal, it must therefore be safe.

    "This is simply not the case."

    Aristolochia is banned under the Aristolochia, Mu Tong and Fangi Prohibition (Jersey) Order 2002
    Gene Ching
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  2. #2
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    Hence I go to great lengths to find clean sources of herbs.

    There are no such things as organic Chinese herbs. at least 100%. some are just unable to be certified.

    Aristolochia is an acid that can shut down your kidneys and kill you.

    xi xin has it in it as well as certain forms of Mu Tong and other herbs.

    If you cook it you destroy it.

    It can been used external only for pain. Internal usage is not a very good choice for it due to the risk of kidney failure.
    Last edited by Dale Dugas; 03-04-2010 at 12:18 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Low standards in Oz

    I just saw Wicked. Oz makes me think of that. I know, that's not OT, but I have to write something with each news post as the forum won't allow just a quote.
    Lack of Government Regulation in Traditional Medicine 'Alarming'
    By Sonya Bryskine
    Epoch Times Staf Created: Mar 7, 2010 Last Updated: Mar 7, 2010

    SYDNEY—The absence of national registration standards for traditional Chinese medicine practitioners, herbalists, and even naturopaths is putting consumers at risk, says the former president of the Australian Medical Association.

    Professor Kerryn Phelps believes that natural medicine deserves the same level of government regulation as other health professionals like optometrists, dentists, or doctors.

    “I think we need to move to registration of naturopaths and herbal medicine practitioners so that people who call themselves naturopaths and herbalists have a minimum level of education,” said professor Phelps, who is the current president of the Australian Integrative Medical Association—an organization that promotes integration of alternative and conventional treatments.

    She says that the lack of regulation in alternative medicine is “alarming” and makes consumer vulnerable to being treated by under-qualified practitioners.

    “Consumers need to look whether the practitioner they are seeing is qualified and what qualification they have, and make sure that the courses [they completed] are from a recognized institution,” she said.

    In all states, except Victoria, overseas, qualified Chinese medicine practitioners can open consulting clinics without meeting Australian standards. There are no mandatory registration requirements or knowledge tests.

    Naturopaths have, up till now, also been exempt from registration. However, a new push from the Australian Register of Naturopaths and Herbalists (ARONA) for national recognition may see naturopaths finally become accredited to uniform standards some time this year.

    In 2005, a New South Wales state Parliament inquiry into regulation of Chinese medicine was made. Recommendations included introducing quality and uniformity of training, accreditation, continuing professional education, and the feasibility of a national registration system. To date, no legislation has been introduced.

    One of the alarming aspects of unregulated herbalists is the lack of standards for prescribing alternative medicines.
    Imported Herbs a Risk

    Professor Phelps cautions against poorly labeled herbal mixtures, which could potentially be made from imported ingredients and fail to pass Australian safety standards.

    “There needs to be greater regulation in the importation of herbs,” says professor Phelps.

    “The problem is not with standardizing manufacturing of herbal medicines in Australia. The problem lies with raw herbs that are coming from overseas where they don’t have the manufacturing practices that we have in Australia,” she said.

    A recent study by Adelaide professor Roger Byard, revealed that in the United States, many herbal medicines that came from Asia contained dangerous levels of toxins or heavy metals. In an Australian Broadcasting Corporation radio interview, he revealed that out of 250 products studied in California, 46 percent were found to have arsenic and 35 percent had mercury, while a significant number also contained lead.

    While Australian regulations for importing packaged medicines are among the strictest in the world, raw ingredients do not fall under the same stringent guidelines.

    The Therapeutic Goods Association (TGA), responsible for monitoring and regulating the pharmaceutical industry, specifies that raw herbs and homeopathic medicines are exempt from listing or registration by the TGA.

    Another concerning factor is that many practitioners may do individual mixtures of herbs, without sufficient education of the possible adverse reactions they may cause, says professor Phelps.

    While adverse reactions to herbal treatments are less reported than for conventional drugs, the dangers are no less significant.

    Many side effects related to herbal medicines come from interactions with chemical drugs. If the herbalist is unaware of these potential problems, the effect can be fatal.

    For example, simple alternative supplements like garlic, gingko, or ginger may increase bleeding if taken together with blood thinning agents. A report published in the Malaysian Journal of Pharmacy detailed a case of spontaneous bleeding in the eye when a patient took ginkgo biloba together with aspirin. A more serious side effect of this could be bleeding in the brain, otherwise known as a stroke.

    However, cases like these can be easily avoided with proper education of consumers, as well as with nationally-enforced regulation of practitioners, believes professor Phelps.

    “It comes to down to consumer education about the importance of getting advice from a qualified practitioner.”
    Gene Ching
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    Importing herbs into Australia is definitely an issue, from both sides of the fence. Ive had who knows how many customers in Australia make orders that were then either seized by customs and taxed heavily, sprayed with pesticides or radiated, or downright destroyed. Customs there is very strict about what they will allow in to their borders.

    Even if they fix all the issues with the alternative medicine market, customs will still require some attention in terms of changing laws and regulations and such for importing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by As reported
    Another concerning factor is that many practitioners may do individual mixtures of herbs, without sufficient education of the possible adverse reactions they may cause, says professor Phelps.

    While adverse reactions to herbal treatments are less reported than for conventional drugs, the dangers are no less significant.

    Many side effects related to herbal medicines come from interactions with chemical drugs. If the herbalist is unaware of these potential problems, the effect can be fatal.

    For example, simple alternative supplements like garlic, gingko, or ginger may increase bleeding if taken together with blood thinning agents. A report published in the Malaysian Journal of Pharmacy detailed a case of spontaneous bleeding in the eye when a patient took ginkgo biloba together with aspirin. A more serious side effect of this could be bleeding in the brain, otherwise known as a stroke.
    This is a serious problem but very few are unaware of the consequences!
    When one mentions this to TCM practitioners they think you are trying to disrupt their business so sadly, such problems will increase to the detriment of herbal medicine profession.

    As an example, co-administration of chemotherapy and herbal prepared medicine is a potentially deadly combination hence the rule of stopping one, allowing for a sufficient washout period (no drug/herbal product) and when sufficiently merited, start with the other regimen!

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    My wife (from China) , who is a TCM Doc trained in TCM in China, is the first to tell her patients the things that western Medicine does better and the things that Chinese medicine does better and the things that don’t mix. But then part of her TCM training included western medicine bits and in China she had to know interactions since she could and did also prescribe western medication from time to time.

    She also goes to great lengths to purchase quality herbs here and has more then once been amazed at some of the prescriptions that some of her patients have brought to her form others. Some (not all) are not complete, and some (not all) were just plain wrong.

  7. #7
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    Jingzhi Kesou Tanchuan

    It's pretty easy to find this stuff on the market still, at least online.
    Jingzhi Kesou Tanchuan Wan 京制咳嗽痰喘丸. It's an OTC for "scattered wind heat, cough. For exogenous phlegm-heat resistance lung, cough, shortness of breath, asthma, itching throats, nausea." List price is only a few bucks a box.

    Page last updated at 11:46 GMT, Monday, 29 March 2010 12:46 UK
    Banned Chinese medicine still on sale

    The pills were banned in July 1999

    A Chinese medicine which can cause cancer is on sale in the UK despite warnings to take it off the market.

    The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency says more than 900 packs of poisonous Jingzhi Kesou Tan Chuan Wan are circulating in shops.

    The news comes weeks after a criminal court heard how a UK woman developed kidney failure and cancer after taking pills containing toxic Aristolochia.

    Anyone who may have taken the medicine should call their doctor, experts say.

    The unlicensed herbal product was distributed to 20 traditional Chinese medicine and herbal medicine outlets throughout the UK.

    The distributor, Ekong International (UK) Ltd, issued a recall last month, but more than three quarters of the stock has still not been returned.

    Packs of the product, brought to the UK from China, have had a new English label put on to hide the original label which contained the Chinese symbols for Aristolochia, a banned toxic and carcinogenic derivative of a plant.

    The medicine is packed in white plastic bottles, each containing 180 round white tablets.

    Richard Woodfield, head of herbal policy at the MHRA, said: "This is a clear example where natural does not necessarily mean safe.

    "Aristolochia is a highly toxic plant that can cause serious injury and even death if taken.

    "I would strongly advise anyone who has used this product to stop taking it and to immediately consult their doctor."
    Gene Ching
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  8. #8
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    I dunno... if I ever required these herbs, I'd likely buy from Dale Dugas, as he seems to be one of the few people who not only knows what he's talking about, but also gives a hoot about whwther or not he's giving you a safe product.

    I wouldn't buy smack from China, as they can't even get their paint, toys, or even baby formula right.
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  9. #9
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    Drake,

    thank you for the kind words.

    I am always trying to source the best herbs as well as GMP certified patent medicines as well.

    It is getting harder, but there are great companies out there that offer herbs that have been tested for pesticides, heavy metals, and such.

    Let me know how I can be of service to anyone on this board.
    Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
    Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.

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    From Taipei

    Underground radio stations and through advertisements on television but no internet?
    Updated Friday, April 2, 2010 9:45 am TWN, The China Post news staff
    Investigators crack down on counterfeit medicine
    TAIPEI, Taiwan -- Investigators and prosecutors yesterday launched nationwide raids to stop the sale of counterfeit drugs, local media reported.

    The suspected sellers and manufacturers of the illegal drugs were charged with violating the Pharmaceutical Affairs Law and Food Sanitation Act. Taipei investigators seized 920,000 fake herbal tablets from 9 a.m. to noon.

    Authorities searched at least 20 Chinese medicine sellers and manufacturers in the raid ordered by Premier Wu Den-yih due to the drugs' link to kidney failure and increased number of dialysis patients in Taiwan.

    Counterfeit drugs can be easily obtained from underground radio stations and through advertisements on television, authorities said.

    The law stipulates that manufacturers and sellers of counterfeit drugs can receive prison sentences of up to 10 years and a maximum fine of NT$10 million.

    Individuals who wilfully participate in the supply, prescription, delivery, display, and storage of the drugs could face prison sentences of up to seven years and a fine of up to NT$5 million.
    Gene Ching
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    Don't use Zhuanggu Guangjie Wan

    Correct me if I'm wrong - Zhuanggu Guangjie Wan is an OTC joint formula used a lot for arthritis. There's probably many products available from different companies. The one to avoid has the provisional registration number HKP-05345
    DH surveillance captured an adulterated proprietary Chinese medicine

    Hong Kong (HKSAR) - The Department of Health (DH) today (May 11) urged members of the public not to buy or take a proprietary Chinese medicine for relieving joint pain called¡u999¡vZhuanggu Guangjie Wan (Wan) with provisional registration number HKP-05345 as analysis by Government Laboratory found undeclared chemicals. The appeal is made in view of the detection of two chemicals, psoralen and iso-psoralen in the Wan but are not on the product's label by DH's Chinese medicine surveillance programme. The presence of the two chemicals indicated that psoralen- and iso-psoralen-containing Chinese herbs, not declared as ingredients, are probably included in the Wan.

    Common herbs containing the respective chemicals are Psoraleae corylifolia L which has the functions of invigorating the kidneys, easing asthma and stopping diarrheaand "Heracleum candicans Wall. ex DC" which can cure coughing and kill pains. The wholesaler, Hong Kong San Jiu Medical Limited, which imported the drug from the Mainland, is ordered by the DH to recall the Wan from consumers because although the undeclared chemicals are not known to pose health hazards, the findings pointed to quality and labelling defects.

    The company has set up a hotline 2408 0789 to answer related enquiries. Meanwhile, investigation into the cause of the adulteration is to continue and DH has already been in contact with its Mainland counterpart. The spokesman reminded members of the public to check their Chinese medicine stock carefully and act accordingly.

    For those who have used the product and feel unwell, they should seek the expert advice of healthcare professionals.
    Gene Ching
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    self-inflicted

    Chinese medicine death links
    Samson Lee
    Monday, February 07, 2011

    More than a third of the about 4,400 cases of poisoning last year were self-inflicted, a study has found.

    And four deaths were, for the first time, attributed to Chinese medicines, two of which were intentional. The study was jointly conducted last year by the Hong Kong Poison Information Centre and the United Christian Hospital's toxicology unit.

    The unit's deputy director, Tse Man-li, said there were 4,420 cases of poisoning last year, a slight rise on the 4,338 cases in 2009. There were 40 deaths last year.

    "Suspected self-harm was the major cause of poisoning, accounting for 36.36 percent," Tse said.

    "The other causes were unintentional poisoning [22.19 percent] and the abusive use of drugs [12.99 percent]."

    Two of the deaths involving the use of Chinese medicines were apparent suicides.

    "A middle-age woman took mylabris [dried beetle] powder, which is used in Chinese medicine and which she bought in the mainland last year. She suffered a cardiac arrest and died several hours after admission to hospital," he said.

    The medicine is used for serious skin ulcers. Tse added the use of mylabris is under control by the government in that it is not easy to buy in Chinese medicine pharmacies in Hong Kong. "If people misuse the medicine, it can cause them to vomit and defecate with blood," Tse said. "We do not know how this woman knew about this medicine but she committed suicide successfully.

    "This is the first time I have come across the use of Chinese medicine to commit suicide."

    Tse said nonpharmaceuticals such as washing liquids and shampoos accounted for 73 percent of the unintentional poisoning cases. Of these, 261 cases involved children under the age of five.
    Suicide by beetle. Vomit and defecate with blood? Nasty...
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    Sources...

    We buy US organic and lab certified because it has just gotten that way.

    There is a BIG time herb supplier that handles tons of stores and practitioners - and offers no gaurantees that what you got sold is even what it was listed as.

    Practitioners and stores can plan on having to move in that direction. There are good suppliers and more all the time.

    It costs about $200 to have a crop tested. The outside sources we do use provide the certificates on request.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Suicide by beetle. Vomit and defecate with blood? Nasty...
    Gene,

    That's nothing! All poisoning meets the same fate, more or less, along with liver and kidney failure.

    We're being poisoned insidiously through health and beauty products like shampoo, conditioner, hair color, sun screen, make up, lipstick, etc.

    Look at http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/

    Worse yet, look up iatrogenic causes of death, being the leading cause of death here in the USA, next to Cancer and Heart Disease. Care to guess how many are because of prescription medications.

    Don't get down on Chinese Medicine, we've a long history and Chinese medicines are generally low toxicity due to low dosages of different substances.

    Yes, Chinese Medicine can be dangerous, especially if self prescribed and people not knowing what they are doing. You have to go to a professional.

    Don't be an ostrich with its head in the sand...be informed!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    Gene,

    That's nothing! All poisoning meets the same fate, more or less, along with liver and kidney failure.

    We're being poisoned insidiously through health and beauty products like shampoo, conditioner, hair color, sun screen, make up, lipstick, etc.

    Look at http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/

    Worse yet, look up iatrogenic causes of death, being the leading cause of death here in the USA, next to Cancer and Heart Disease. Care to guess how many are because of prescription medications.

    Don't get down on Chinese Medicine, we've a long history and Chinese medicines are generally low toxicity due to low dosages of different substances.

    Yes, Chinese Medicine can be dangerous, especially if self prescribed and people not knowing what they are doing. You have to go to a professional.

    Don't be an ostrich with its head in the sand...be informed!
    Oh the article was clearly propaganda - there are numerous deadly poisons and carcinogens in US pharma and food products at US determined "acceptable" levels.

    It is ensuring the purity, potency and cleanliness of what you get that is the real concern these days.

    I think in some cases it was pretty dumb of a experienced store owner to mass sell something dummies could abuse and hurt themselves with - again, not the plant or the med schools fault if the advisories are out there.

    We have more practitioner, apothecary type clients and home do-it-yourselfers so our risks with the uninformed are lower. We are also up front and clear about properties, risks and guidelines because we bulk in raw materia medica.

    I see a push by pharmaceutical interests to lump traditional medicine legal highs and incidents - which are actually much higher in US conventional medicine - into one more lever of financial and population control.

    ----------------

    Yes, 2/3 of the world does not rely primarily on conventional and synthetic medicine, YET of the 1/3 that do, side effects, errors, injuries and deaths are MUCH much higher.
    Last edited by curenado; 02-09-2011 at 05:08 PM.
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