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Thread: Toxic Chinese medicine

  1. #16
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    self-inflicted

    Chinese medicine death links
    Samson Lee
    Monday, February 07, 2011

    More than a third of the about 4,400 cases of poisoning last year were self-inflicted, a study has found.

    And four deaths were, for the first time, attributed to Chinese medicines, two of which were intentional. The study was jointly conducted last year by the Hong Kong Poison Information Centre and the United Christian Hospital's toxicology unit.

    The unit's deputy director, Tse Man-li, said there were 4,420 cases of poisoning last year, a slight rise on the 4,338 cases in 2009. There were 40 deaths last year.

    "Suspected self-harm was the major cause of poisoning, accounting for 36.36 percent," Tse said.

    "The other causes were unintentional poisoning [22.19 percent] and the abusive use of drugs [12.99 percent]."

    Two of the deaths involving the use of Chinese medicines were apparent suicides.

    "A middle-age woman took mylabris [dried beetle] powder, which is used in Chinese medicine and which she bought in the mainland last year. She suffered a cardiac arrest and died several hours after admission to hospital," he said.

    The medicine is used for serious skin ulcers. Tse added the use of mylabris is under control by the government in that it is not easy to buy in Chinese medicine pharmacies in Hong Kong. "If people misuse the medicine, it can cause them to vomit and defecate with blood," Tse said. "We do not know how this woman knew about this medicine but she committed suicide successfully.

    "This is the first time I have come across the use of Chinese medicine to commit suicide."

    Tse said nonpharmaceuticals such as washing liquids and shampoos accounted for 73 percent of the unintentional poisoning cases. Of these, 261 cases involved children under the age of five.
    Suicide by beetle. Vomit and defecate with blood? Nasty...
    Gene Ching
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  2. #17
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    Sources...

    We buy US organic and lab certified because it has just gotten that way.

    There is a BIG time herb supplier that handles tons of stores and practitioners - and offers no gaurantees that what you got sold is even what it was listed as.

    Practitioners and stores can plan on having to move in that direction. There are good suppliers and more all the time.

    It costs about $200 to have a crop tested. The outside sources we do use provide the certificates on request.
    "The perfect way to do, is to be" ~ Lao Tzu

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Suicide by beetle. Vomit and defecate with blood? Nasty...
    Gene,

    That's nothing! All poisoning meets the same fate, more or less, along with liver and kidney failure.

    We're being poisoned insidiously through health and beauty products like shampoo, conditioner, hair color, sun screen, make up, lipstick, etc.

    Look at http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/

    Worse yet, look up iatrogenic causes of death, being the leading cause of death here in the USA, next to Cancer and Heart Disease. Care to guess how many are because of prescription medications.

    Don't get down on Chinese Medicine, we've a long history and Chinese medicines are generally low toxicity due to low dosages of different substances.

    Yes, Chinese Medicine can be dangerous, especially if self prescribed and people not knowing what they are doing. You have to go to a professional.

    Don't be an ostrich with its head in the sand...be informed!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    Gene,

    That's nothing! All poisoning meets the same fate, more or less, along with liver and kidney failure.

    We're being poisoned insidiously through health and beauty products like shampoo, conditioner, hair color, sun screen, make up, lipstick, etc.

    Look at http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/

    Worse yet, look up iatrogenic causes of death, being the leading cause of death here in the USA, next to Cancer and Heart Disease. Care to guess how many are because of prescription medications.

    Don't get down on Chinese Medicine, we've a long history and Chinese medicines are generally low toxicity due to low dosages of different substances.

    Yes, Chinese Medicine can be dangerous, especially if self prescribed and people not knowing what they are doing. You have to go to a professional.

    Don't be an ostrich with its head in the sand...be informed!
    Oh the article was clearly propaganda - there are numerous deadly poisons and carcinogens in US pharma and food products at US determined "acceptable" levels.

    It is ensuring the purity, potency and cleanliness of what you get that is the real concern these days.

    I think in some cases it was pretty dumb of a experienced store owner to mass sell something dummies could abuse and hurt themselves with - again, not the plant or the med schools fault if the advisories are out there.

    We have more practitioner, apothecary type clients and home do-it-yourselfers so our risks with the uninformed are lower. We are also up front and clear about properties, risks and guidelines because we bulk in raw materia medica.

    I see a push by pharmaceutical interests to lump traditional medicine legal highs and incidents - which are actually much higher in US conventional medicine - into one more lever of financial and population control.

    ----------------

    Yes, 2/3 of the world does not rely primarily on conventional and synthetic medicine, YET of the 1/3 that do, side effects, errors, injuries and deaths are MUCH much higher.
    Last edited by curenado; 02-09-2011 at 05:08 PM.
    "The perfect way to do, is to be" ~ Lao Tzu

  5. #20
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    I'm more of an emu than an ostrich, chusauli

    To say that western products are poisonous is a bit of a straw man argument. Sure, there's plenty of poisonous things out there. And I'm fully aware of TCM's long history. I'm also acutely aware of toxic issues. I'm allergic to a lot of TCMedicines. I'm allergic to most tiedajiu. I was recently given a TCM neck formula by a good friend who just got his acupuncture/herbalist license. I had a horrible reaction to it.

    Don't get me wrong, though. I support TCM. I've had some fabulous results with some TCM, just like I've had both good and bad results with Western medicine.

    My intention with this thread has just been to report on news stories concerning this topic, just to document how many come up on the newsfeeds over time. So to me, it's about TCM taking it's head out of the sand, especially when it comes to spreading into the west.
    Gene Ching
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    To say that western products are poisonous is a bit of a straw man argument. Sure, there's plenty of poisonous things out there. And I'm fully aware of TCM's long history. I'm also acutely aware of toxic issues. I'm allergic to a lot of TCMedicines. I'm allergic to most tiedajiu. I was recently given a TCM neck formula by a good friend who just got his acupuncture/herbalist license. I had a horrible reaction to it.

    Don't get me wrong, though. I support TCM. I've had some fabulous results with some TCM, just like I've had both good and bad results with Western medicine.

    My intention with this thread has just been to report on news stories concerning this topic, just to document how many come up on the newsfeeds over time. So to me, it's about TCM taking it's head out of the sand, especially when it comes to spreading into the west.
    Many Die Da Jiu ingredients are toxic. If your Rx contains Sheng Chuan Wu, Sheng Cao Wu, Sheng Ban Xia, Sheng Tian Nan Xing, or even cooked versions (Shou Chuan/Cao Wu, etc), Tu Bie Chong, and other exotics, they can be toxic.

    Sounds like you were allergic to the neck Rx given by your friend. You might want to check the ingredients. Also "newly licensed" may also be "less experienced". You could always get a customized Die Da Rx made for you, specifically. What were the horrible reactions to it? Was it topical or internal? What were the ingredients?

    A lot of toxins come from the foods we eat with artificial colors, flavors, sweeteners, preservatives, etc. Walking around with extra pounds is also carrying around toxins in your fat, particularly if you're not training regularly with a sedentary job. Exercise and cleaning up diet will detox you.

    The health and beauty products are a real threat, but a hidden one. I am not saying "that western products are poisonous" at all. There are a lot of dangers of drugs:

    http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

    and "Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs - 32,000" far exceeds TCM related deaths.

  7. #22
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    Been there, done that

    You got to remember who you are talking to, chusauli. I have excellent access to many top tiedazhang and TCM docs. I train regularly, undergo detoxing, and watch my diet quite well. Obviously I don't use beauty products. Come on now. Look at me. As if that would help.

    And I've experimented with varying tiedajiu recipes, toggling the ingredients - frankly it was too much work and now I just make do without it. Once you get past reliance on such liniments, you don't really miss them.

    In short, I've been down this road for a long time. What amuses me is that whenever I bring it up to exponents of TCM, they always treat me as if I'm ignorant of all this, as if I haven't done my research, and they know that I do research in this field for a living. It makes me wonder if they are better at listening to their patients or at proselytizing TCM. And like I said, I *do* support TCM. I just don't believe it's a panacea. I don't believe anything is a panacea.

    If you really want to know, I discuss many of my TCM issues in my book, Shaolin Trips.
    Gene Ching
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  8. #23
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    Gene,

    No worries, just want to put my post out there so that those who don't do the research and education like you don't get the wrong impressions.

    Sure, you do the research. How many others do? They see "Wow! Chinese medicine Suicide by beetle. Vomit and defecate with blood? Nasty..." or a whopping "400 deaths caused by a mushroom" and TCM wrongly gets labeled as "deadly - poison and can kill you". Even the editor (you) got "horrible reactions" from "top guys in the field". What is the layman to think?

    So before you tell me about not listening - I am hearing your mixed messages of * supporting Chinese medicine. Finally Gene, I've seen you clean up pretty well... LOL! I am not talking about "beauty products" - I am talking about everyday stuff like soap, toothpaste, daily essentials, etc. Check out the website I posted again.

  9. #24
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    haaa. thanks for that!

    This forum is full of wrong impressions. It's a failing of the internet. If an infinite amount of monkeys were on an infinite amount of keyboards, one would come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. Meanwhile, the rest of us are stuck with an infinite amount of stupid posts and tweets.

    I'll temper my posts by saying I've had some very positive TCM experiences. It did wonders for me when I lived in the Silicon Valley and suffered from debilitating allergies. It's also done well by me in other situations. But at the same time, I'll keep adding news items to this thread as they pop up on the newsfeed. As an editor, 'nasty suicide by beetle' is just too irresistible to pass by.
    Gene Ching
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  10. #25
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    You editors are all the same!

    Sensationalism and vague remarks, Tiger moms, iPhone 4 G and whatever else is hot!

    We're cool!

  11. #26
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    fang chi

    ...or more scientifically, aristolochic acid.
    Study finds herbalists at higher urinary cancer risk
    Published November 30, 2012
    Reuters

    A small new study from Taiwan links a widely banned substance traditionally used in Chinese medicine to an elevated risk for kidney and bladder cancers among professional herbalists.

    Herbs, such as fang chi, that contain the plant-derived aristolochic acid, are known to cause cancer as well as kidney failure, and the current study suggests that working with these herbs raised urinary cancer rates among Taiwanese herbalists who handled fang chi before its ban in 2003.

    "This is the first study that looks at an occupational group that has been heavily exposed to aristolochic acid," said the study's lead author Dr. Hsiao-Yu Yang, an occupational medicine professor at Tzu Chi University in Taiwan.

    Previous research has found that Chinese herbalists have three times higher risk for urinary system cancers compared with the general population, but those reports didn't connect the pattern to a specific work-related factor.

    To see whether fang chi exposure could be involved, Yang's team used national databases to track 6,564 Chinese herbalists working in Taiwan between 1985 and 1998. In 2002, the herbalists took surveys about their recollections of processing medicines such as fang chi in their practices.

    The occupational researchers honed in on 24 herbalists who had contracted cancer of the urinary system, including the kidneys, bladder and urethra, and compared that group with 140 herbalists who were healthy at the time of the 2002 survey.

    About two-thirds of the herbalists in both groups were women.

    Herbalists who packed or sold fang chi had 2.6 times the risk of urinary cancer compared with herbalists who avoided fang chi in their practice, Yang's team reports in the Journal of Urology. Those who ground the herb had 2.2 times higher risk.

    The results took into account other potentially cancer-causing factors such as cigarette smoking, use of hair dyes or exposure to arsenic from deep-water wells.

    An ongoing threat

    In 2001, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration warned consumers of the dangers of aristolochic acid-containing herbs, and regulations established in the Europe Union in 2004 effectively banned the substance. However, Internet sites still sell the processed drug or source plant, which remains legal in China and several other countries.

    For Yang, the study also highlights the fact that little-regulated Chinese herbal medicines in many cases still contain aristolochic acid.

    "We want to push our government to prohibit all drugs that contain aristolochic acid," Yang said. One example, xi xin, a common cold medicine still in use in Taiwan, contains aristolochic acid, he pointed out.

    Yang and colleagues also found that 19 percent of Taiwanese herbalists had traces of aristolochic acid in their blood three years after the ban, indicating that the drug was probably still in use.

    That possibility is among the reasons at least one expert dismissed the new study as flawed.

    "It's a low quality study, and I wouldn't rely on it at all," said Mikel Aickin, methodology editor at BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine, who was not involved in the research.

    The report's main weakness, Aickin told Reuters Health, was that many of the herbalists personally used fang chi outside of the clinic, making it impossible for researchers to determine whether the increases in urinary system cancer came from a work hazard or personal consumption.

    The claim that handling fang chi is an occupational danger to herbalists isn't true, Aickin said. "It's really just a very clumsy study that's rediscovered what's already known about the carcinogenesis of taking it as a treatment. They're producing nonsense," he added.

    Yang agreed that the study could not determine whether the Chinese herbalists put themselves at additional risk by personally consuming fang chi.

    "This occupational group may also take fang chi - I cannot say that it is not impossible that the disease comes from taking the herbs - but their occupation contributes to the etiology greatly," Yang said.

    "Now that this paper is out, I suspect and hope that there will be more interest in worker safety in this industry," said Steven Given, dean of clinical education at the American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine in San Francisco. "I think this is a very good sign."

    A "global disease"?

    Beyond herbalists, and despite near-worldwide bans, cases of aristolochic acid-linked cancers and other illnesses continue to crop up from the Balkans to Beijing.

    Fang chi was traditionally used to treat arthritis and swelling, but aristolochic acid has been found in a wide variety of dietary supplements and alternative medicines (see list of examples here: 1.usa.gov/V8MkNx).

    "This is a potential global disease," said Graham Lord, a nephrologist at King's College London who worked on the first case of kidney failure from aristolochic acid reported in the U.K.

    "It may be under-recognized, but in the last two or three years, there has been an increasing number of epidemiological studies coming out showing that there could be potentially tens of thousands of patients out there that have been exposed," Lord told Reuters Health.

    Doctors may not immediately associate kidney diseases with the ingredient that contaminates some herbal preparations and can be easily bought over the Internet, experts said.

    'It's quite hard to diagnose, there is no simple test that you can perform, it's a fairly specialized form of testing," Lord said.

    To help in the diagnosis, Lord and colleagues in Belgium are currently working on a checklist for doctors to help determine if aristolochic acid is at the root of a patient's kidney failure or urinary system cancer.

    Gene Ching
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  12. #27
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    Asarone & Mailuoning

    I didn't realize there were that many TCMers injecting stuff. I've never had a TCM injection, and frankly, I wouldn't trust that.
    Govt looks into woman’s death at illegal TCM clinic
    Global Times | 2013-1-11 0:08:01
    By Zhang Zihan

    The government has announced a clinic in Chaoyang district is illegal after a woman died allegedly caused by an injection of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM).

    Huang Yazhe, a 47-year-old woman from Fujian Province, died in Dingcheng TCM Clinic in Ligezhuang village on New Year's Eve. Her son Guo Jianxiong told the Global Times Thursday that he believes the clinic should assume full responsibility for his mother's death.

    An official from Chaoyang District Health Bureau, surnamed Xu, told the Global Times they need to check the autopsy report before they take further action, but confirmed the clinic is illegal.

    "It has been proved the clinic has no license, and is not registered with us," said Xu.

    Guo said that he and his mother both caught a cold, so they decided to consult a doctor on New Year's Eve.

    Huang was given an injection of asarone, which is made with TCM. Their first dose was fine but when the second dose started, Huang suddenly said she felt uncomfortable and quickly slumped.

    Guo said Huang's heart had already stopped beating before she was sent to 263 Hospital in Tongzhou district.

    A report from 263 Hospital said Huang suffered a cardiac arrest and an allergic reaction when she was admitted.

    Guo said the clinic has been closed since his mother's death, but its director has not appeared, and no government official has been in contact.

    According to Guo, the clinic had been operating in this place for more than two years, and continued to operate despite the government launching several crackdowns on illegal clinics during this time.

    A local police officer responsible for the investigation, surnamed Jia, refused to comment.

    The Global Times tried to contact the head of the clinic but he could not be reached.

    Asarone injections have been used to treat respiratory disease for a long time in China, but in 2011 the State Food and Drug Administration warned it may trigger a serious allergic reaction.

    Also in 2011, 1,500 cases of adverse reaction have been reported by patients receiving Mailuoning, another TCM injection, and 189 of them suffered from serious problems including respiratory damage or heart disease.

    Gene Ching
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    ...or more scientifically, aristolochic acid.
    This is a major problem with herbal medicine especially when mixed with Western drugs. Another major problem is misidentification of the herb, no purity or sanitized materials, and lack of GCMP (Good Manufacturing Principles).
    Add ADME (absorption distribution, metabolism and excretion) with mis-identiifcation and combining herbal medicine+Western drugs and you have created a bad combination.
    The reports pertaining to adverse events associated with this is out there!

  14. #29
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    Aw crap

    I've used a lot of Yunnan Baiyao over the years. I used to like that product.

    TCM maker urged to boost drug awareness
    (Xinhua)
    08:35, February 07, 2013

    BEIJING, Feb. 6 (Xinhua) -- China's drug safety watchdog has ordered traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) maker Yunnan Baiyao to boost awareness of one of its drug's side effects and remind patients to use it properly.

    Yunnan Baiyao manufactures a drug of the same name that is used to treat open wounds and muscle pain. The composition of the drug is under state-level protection.

    The Department of Health of the Hong Kong special administrative region on Tuesday recalled the drug after finding that it contained an undeclared amount of aconitum alkaloids.

    Aconitum alkaloids can be toxic. If ingested improperly, they can cause numbness of the mouth and limbs, nausea, vomiting and peripheral weakness, and even lead to life-threatening conditions like breathing difficulties and cardiac arrhythmia, according to the department.

    An official from the State Food and Drug Administration (SFDA) said Wednesday that the administration has followed related cases concerning the drug's safety.

    The SFDA also ordered the drug maker to warn patients that they should not use the drug without authorization, increase their dosage or prolong the duration of use, the official said.

    Yunnan Baiyao responded in a Wednesday statement, saying that through special production processes and techniques, the toxicity of the aconitum alkaloids contained in the drug can be removed or alleviated.

    According to statistics from Yunnan Baiyao, the company detected a total of 28 adverse reactions to its product between 2010 and 2012, mostly skin allergies and itching. No serious adverse drug reactions were found.
    Gene Ching
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  15. #30
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    There is also an ethnic variation on how drug acts on certain groups! I don't think that the present system acknowledges this but I have seen some that do address the problem that 'Western' audiences may need more of a specific TCM herbal medicnie than an Asian audience based on their dietary choices.

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