What Bak Mei Chi Gung Forms Do You All Practice?

[diego]

T.o.d. why can't you learn 18 hands?.

[Lai See]

Im guessing what lai see is saying is that by practising jik bo as it is is both kung fu and chi gung.
If not, that is the way i was taught.

Agreed though if the fctt isnt actually there in your training im not sure what benefit to both chi gung and your pak mei your gonna get.
Jik bo is my favorite form, next to 18 hands but i cant learn that so jik bo it is

First part, yes, exactly.


FCTT.. words. Words are not training. Training is. Pak Mei is Pak Mei, it's all in there, it's all there. If it isn't then it's not Pak Mei.
Simple.

18 is 'closed' then I'm guessing.
Well, for my part, Jik Bou is the most important, but my favourite is Nine Step. Always will be.
And yes I do have the other two before someone asks.

[Lau]

Lai See,

That could have been my exact post ! Of course all theory on FCTT is in Jek bo (called Chi Pu for us in Hakka). Many people use the words, but it is rare to see it actually been done. And I am still struggling too. Seeing nine step push being performed by my Sihing was the reason for me to start Pak Mei. It was love at the first sight. And as with Jek bo the love grew over the years as I discovered the effective applications and the deeper theory on power generation.

Regards, Lau
Ps, great signature, as we say, ging gets generated through speed ! Although I would change it to "there is no technique that can't be defeated by relaxation and speed"

[TAO YIN]

This kind of goes back to my original question in this thread. I don't think that any of those forms are going to fully develop anything like natural and practical FCTT or Chi Gung, no matter how slow or fast, or how many times, a person does them. For the FCTT, somewhat... For the Chi Gung, they just aren't enough IMO. Seriously, I don't even see hardly any of the daoist hands in those forms; save for Willow Leaf Palm, Yin and Yang Hands, and maybe Beggars Hands...

[Lai See]

This kind of goes back to my original question in this thread. I don't think that any of those forms are going to fully develop anything like natural and practical FCTT or Chi Gung, no matter how slow or fast, or how many times, a person does them. For the FCTT, somewhat... For the Chi Gung, they just aren't enough IMO. Seriously, I don't even see hardly any of the daoist hands in those forms; save for Willow Leaf Palm, Yin and Yang Hands, and maybe Beggars Hands...

This however is your opinion, and your opinion, unless I have this quite wrong and please educate me if I do, is based on the fact that you train in other than Cheung Lai Chuen's Pak Mei.
So my question to you is how do you know what the sets are going to develop or that they 'just arent enough' ?

To me, you are simply using a lot of words. I could be wrong.

[Lai See]

[QUOTE=Lau;1002363]Lai See,

That could have been my exact post ! Of course all theory on FCTT is in Jek bo (called Chi Pu for us in Hakka). Many people use the words, but it is rare to see it actually been done.
QUOTE]

Thank you.

[TAO YIN]

Lai See,

Are you being pleasant or rude? We are all using a lot of words. We are on a forum.

Ha Hon Hung was one of CLC's early students, like it or not. I used to mainly train Jik Bo from his line. I don't train it much anymore. I have trained it and seen it in most lines. Heck, some lines have it where the finger jab is in a horse stance, then the punch is in a front stance. Have you ever seen that one? Is it Guangzhou line? Jik Bo is Jik Bo, like you say, right?

There isn't much difference, a move here or there, depending on which line you are from. All of it, is CLC's Bak Mei, as he taught these people this art...Jik Bo only being from Hong Kong line doesn't mean anything. It isn't more original, and it doesn't have more intent, or anything like that...

I know that the sets are not going to develop much "Chi" by themselves because I have already tried that. You would be better off learning Tai Ji than doing those sets slow. They aren't meant to be done slow. They aren't set up that way. I mentioned that the sets have maybe 3 hands that could be considered traditional Daoist Postures for Chi Gung. If you want to know about it, study about it. Your Grandmaster learned from a monk. They would have meditated, ALOT!!!

Just going slow and doing those forms isn't Chi Gung.

[Jorge]

Lai See,

Are you being pleasant or rude? We are all using a lot of words. We are on a forum.

Ha Hon Hung was one of CLC's early students, like it or not. I used to mainly train Jik Bo from his line. I don't train it much anymore. I have trained it and seen it in most lines. Heck, some lines have it where the finger jab is in a horse stance, then the punch is in a front stance. Have you ever seen that one? Is it Guangzhou line? Jik Bo is Jik Bo, like you say, right?

There isn't much difference, a move here or there, depending on which line you are from. All of it, is CLC's Bak Mei, as he taught these people this art...Jik Bo only being from Hong Kong line doesn't mean anything. It isn't more original, and it doesn't have more intent, or anything like that...

I know that the sets are not going to develop much "Chi" by themselves because I have already tried that. You would be better off learning Tai Ji than doing those sets slow. They aren't meant to be done slow. They aren't set up that way. I mentioned that the sets have maybe 3 hands that could be considered traditional Daoist Postures for Chi Gung. If you want to know about it, study about it. Your Grandmaster learned from a monk. They would have meditated, ALOT!!!

Just going slow and doing those forms isn't Chi Gung.

Not to mention the famous pic of CLC in a monk's robe doing a meditation. As a matter of fact, a couple of years ago, a gentlemen from the guangzhou line posted on here that he had meds that went hand in hand with his PM. The chi gung is to develope the energy in a pulse type manner.

Plus, I understand what my bro means as we trained jik bo for years. I have to admit that training jik bo made me understand good body mechanics and yes is somewhat internal, but I guess thats why PM is not pruely an internal art. To be internal you need meds (standing, moving, sitting, etc...). A good example would be YI Chuan. No forms, only standing meds, push hands and fighting.


Lau,

Ging can only flow when you are relaxed, but what happens when you tense up the fist upon contact?


Bless,

Buby

[TAO YIN]

Buby,

How you doing bro? Good post! Also, your last question there to Lau, is an extremely important question. I still can't get that down sometimes, but work on it a lot.

[Jorge]

Buby,

How you doing bro? Good post! Also, your last question there to Lau, is an extremely important question. I still can't get that down sometimes, but work on it a lot.

Pretty good bro! How are you? When you coming to Brooklyn?

Yeah, it takes time. I'm much better at it now, since I'm back to sparring and bag work again. Bro, all the punches to air will not teach timing, nor will it give you confidence that you can pull it off. Spar, Spar and spar some more. The real trick for me was letting go. Once I did, everything came natural.


Bless,

Buby

[Tiger on Duty]

Yes18 ghostbridge is internal students only, since I have more than 1 sifui won't be able to become internal for bai mei.
I'm ok with that though goodbasic pak mei is slot better than 10 forms of something else. IMO.

[TAO YIN]

Bro,

For sure! I practice maybe 2 forms for the fun of them. For a long time, mostly what I was doing was sparring, rolling, bagwork, conditioning. Now, I am really getting into cultivation. You will understand this, "if you can't do 108s, don't do kung fu."

Something funny about what you said, is relating FCTT in practicing it with regular Jik Bo. Form style FCTT goes away pretty quickly sparring with it. Or doing bagwork.

My meaning is for example , when a person can finger jab the heavy bag with fctt, and with the same kind of energy they use in their forms, then they are getting somewhere. Most people say turn the finger jab into a regular jab. Why have the finger strike at all then?

Sifu told me you have been going off on your training! Funny you mention Brooklyn. I was actually looking for work there today. Anyways, I do plan to come up there and check out the place soon. I'll let you know for sure. Cheers!

[Lai See]

Lai See,

Are you being pleasant or rude? We are all using a lot of words. We are on a forum.

Ha Hon Hung was one of CLC's early students, like it or not. I used to mainly train Jik Bo from his line. I don't train it much anymore. I have trained it and seen it in most lines. Heck, some lines have it where the finger jab is in a horse stance, then the punch is in a front stance. Have you ever seen that one? Is it Guangzhou line? Jik Bo is Jik Bo, like you say, right?

There isn't much difference, a move here or there, depending on which line you are from. All of it, is CLC's Bak Mei, as he taught these people this art...Jik Bo only being from Hong Kong line doesn't mean anything. It isn't more original, and it doesn't have more intent, or anything like that...

I know that the sets are not going to develop much "Chi" by themselves because I have already tried that. You would be better off learning Tai Ji than doing those sets slow. They aren't meant to be done slow. They aren't set up that way. I mentioned that the sets have maybe 3 hands that could be considered traditional Daoist Postures for Chi Gung. If you want to know about it, study about it. Your Grandmaster learned from a monk. They would have meditated, ALOT!!!

Just going slow and doing those forms isn't Chi Gung.

Effectively I am being both. One of the differences between you and I posting on this forum is that you will have noted that I don't tend to use words that simply cannot be explained on such a medium as this forum. In fact I don't really use them full stop. You however, do, that is my point regarding 'words'.

I never stated that I liked anything, "or not" in the regard of those that Cheung lai Chuen taught. Your inference not mine.

In a nutshell and from my perspective Jik Bou IS Jik Bou. For example those that practice it in extended unrealistic stances are not doing the Jik Bou that I know. Those that concern themselves with a 'finger jab' for that movement are not either and clearly haven't been taught all the movements therein. That is a simple fact and not rude.

I simply don't understand what it is that you are trying to get across to me. If I dissect your points logically you appear to be saying that what I (amongst others) practice isn't giving me 'something' that your training is.
Well, here is a thing, yes and so what? Do you see the point I am making?
Perhaps I don't want your Chi Gung.
What I have learnt and practice and indeed teach, suits me. And it suited my teacher, and his.
For the record, I don't practice them slowly. :-)

[TAO YIN]

Lai See,

Please direct me to what I have said that can't be explained on a medium such as this forum. I will explain. Perhaps in the future if you don't understand my words, just say "I don't understand what you are saying here..." I'll agree with you, I am too wordy sometimes. I just figured you would know. Then again, if you don't understand "Chi Gung," why post?

Jik Bo is Jik Bo. Jik Bo isn't Chi Gung. Same goes, Bil Jee is Bil Jee. It's a finger jab. You can use it to parry for your next Sut Choy/ Chum Choy, or try to drive it in your opponent's armpit, or strike them in the eye, or do a thousand different things with it...You can change it into a fist, you can use it to thrust your opponent away in the clinch... BUT, in the form it's a Finger Jab, not an "all applications apply" Godsend.

You are right about my inference. I am just used to most saying this isn't this and that isn't that because it isn't CLC Purebred Pedigree Hong Kong Pak Mei TM Inc...

That is good if you dissect my points. That is good if I dissect your points. I asked if anyone trained Chi Gung. You said that you did with Jik Bo, but that Jik Bo is Jik Bo...

And you are right. What I am getting out of my training is different than what you are getting, and vice versa. I gain something you don't, you gain something I don't. Everyday this occurs, with every fleeting moment of our lives as humans.

It isn't a question of you wanting my Chi Gung. It is a question of you knowing Chi Gung. Jik Bo isn't Chi Gung. Chi Gung isn't built into those forms. Chi Gung is Chi Gung. Don't you think that your Grandmaster CLC studied Chi Gung? Don't you think it would help you?

And why is horse stance and extended unrealistic stance? Guangzhou Bak Mei uses it in training their Jik Bo right?

[Lai See]

Lai See,

1) Please direct me to what I have said that can't be explained on a medium such as this forum. I will explain.

Perhaps in the future if you don't understand my words, just say "I don't understand what you are saying here..." I'll agree with you, I am too wordy sometimes. I just figured you would know.

2) Then again, if you don't understand "Chi Gung," why post?

Jik Bo is Jik Bo. Jik Bo isn't Chi Gung. Same goes, Bil Jee is Bil Jee. It's a finger jab. You can use it to parry for your next Sut Choy/ Chum Choy, or try to drive it in your opponent's armpit, or strike them in the eye, or do a thousand different things with it...You can change it into a fist, you can use it to thrust your opponent away in the clinch...

3) BUT, in the form it's a Finger Jab, not an "all applications apply" Godsend.

You are right about my inference.

4) I am just used to most saying this isn't this and that isn't that because it isn't CLC Purebred Pedigree Hong Kong Pak Mei TM Inc...

That is good if you dissect my points. That is good if I dissect your points. I asked if anyone trained Chi Gung.

5) You said that you did with Jik Bo, but that Jik Bo is Jik Bo...

And you are right. What I am getting out of my training is different than what you are getting, and vice versa. I gain something you don't, you gain something I don't. Everyday this occurs, with every fleeting moment of our lives as humans.

It isn't a question of you wanting my Chi Gung. It is a question of you knowing Chi Gung. Jik Bo isn't Chi Gung.

6) Chi Gung isn't built into those forms.

Chi Gung is Chi Gung. Don't you think that your Grandmaster CLC studied Chi Gung? Don't you think it would help you?

7)And why is horse stance and extended unrealistic stance?

8) Guangzhou Bak Mei uses it in training their Jik Bo right?

OK, point by point:-

1) As example TTFC cannot be explained in written words whatever the format.

2) I didn't state that. You did.

3) You are incorrect. It is NOT only a finger jab in the Cheung Lai Chuen Pak Mei set Jik Bou.

4) Why is it that you think that people say such things?

5) I said that it is intergral.

6) Yes it is.

7) Because it is an unrealistic extended stance. You say that you spar. Do you ever use a horse stance in this sparring?

8) I have no idea. Do they? If so then as I have previously explained it is not the same Jik Bou that I practice.