Republican Party Modus Operandi

[sanjuro_ronin]

I respect some people's religion.

BUT,

If you're Christian, you have to face the fact that, in most Christian lands, until very recently, it would have been a death sentence to form an atheists club in a community. Even through the first two-thirds of the twentieth century in America, being an atheist of any influence would have very serious negative repercussions.

I'm not saying these are your views, but unless you tore the pages out of your Bible saying all non-believers go to hell, gays go to hell, women are to be treated as property, then you are on very poor ground for this fight. I'm not saying you necessarily believe any of those things, but if those pages still stand DESPITE your belief, in YOUR copy of YOUR Bible, you can't complain when others point them out just because you don't look at them...

That said, any good idea from any text, mystical, religious, or otherwise, humans wrote and humans can make use of. But there is no meeting ground between "we all worship the same thing" and "only by accepting Jesus can you go to heaven" without clarifying which part of the second you don't agree with, and moderates almost always fail to do this.

I was raised in Portugal, a very RC land and there were NO issues with atheists or any other religions.
There is one WORD of God and that is Jesus and where there is "conflict" between Jesus's words and the bible, Jesus wins out.
To focus on "hell" and punishment and disregard Grace and salvation gives only part of the whole picture.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You can hate my attitude about cops but when it comes to the Christian Right I've got 20 years of INTIMATE exposure to the disease.

I don't hate anyone's view on anything, though I may disagree with it.
I have more issues with the "Christian right" than I can put into words.
I have dealt with religious cults far more than I ever cared too.
I know what the problem is and its PEOPLE not GOD.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Jesus never mentions gay people once. So, if all the OT is out the window, does he approve of hom0sexual relationships as long as they accept God into their hearts?

Jesus never mentions gays, this is true, though Paul does but he also mentions
that many of his views are just that, HIS views.
So what are we to make of it?
Judge not lest Ye be Judged.
Love your neighbour as yourself
Understand that God' gift of grace is for all the receive it.
None of this CONDONE Gays' nor doe it CONDEM, it means leave things that are up to God ( judgment) to God.

[MasterKiller]

Jesus never mentions gays, this is true, though Paul does but he also mentions
that many of his views are just that, HIS views.
So what are we to make of it?
Judge not lest Ye be Judged.
Love your neighbour as yourself
Understand that God' gift of grace is for all the receive it.
None of this CONDONE Gays' nor doe it CONDEM, it means leave things that are up to God ( judgment) to God.

Yet, this is NOT the "evangelical" fundamentalist approach, even though it is supported in the Gospel. They always fall back to the OT on issues such as gay marraige, or civil unions, which have no religious context at all. Their hypocricy is what this conversation was about in the first place.

Jesus was a social liberal. He urged care for the weak, the indigent, and the poor, and never questioned how they arrived at their station before attending to them. He would not approve of someone "looking down" on the poor.

[Drake]

Simply because the christian extremists are among the louder groups out there, does not mean they are the majority.

[MasterKiller]

Simply because the christian extremists are among the louder groups out there, does not mean they are the majority.

But they are the ones with the most influence in the Republican party, which caters to them for their votes. So when Republicans get elected, they owe the fundamentalist wing and push their agenda--public funds for religious schools (vouchers), intelligent design in public schools, bans on gay unions, prayer in schools, religious symbols on public property, etc...

All of which amounts to nothing short of state-sponsored religious propoganda.

[Drake]

But they are the ones with the most influence in the Republican party, which caters to them for their votes. So when Republicans get elected, they owe the fundamentalist wing and push their agenda--public funds for religious schools (vouchers), intelligent design in public schools, bans on gay unions, prayer in schools, religious symbols on public property, etc...

All of which amounts to nothing short of state-sponsored religious propoganda.

Actually, I'd say they have the least amount of influence. Currently, the anti-tax, anti-Obama, anti-health care, anti-socialism crowd seems to be running the show over there. I haven't heard a peep about religion from the GOP lately.

And religious symbols on public property is a losing bet, regardless of politics.

[MasterKiller]

Actually, I'd say they have the least amount of influence. Currently, the anti-tax, anti-Obama, anti-health care, anti-socialism crowd seems to be running the show over there. I haven't heard a peep about religion from the GOP lately.

They are one in the same. It's just a shift in message. Palin was originally portrayed as a religious conservative instead of the poster child against a "socialist" agenda. She was chosen as VP partly to enhance McCain's appeal to the fundamentalist right.

[1bad65]

I'm not the one whose professing belief in a genocidal rape-ordering mountain deity who orders killing and conquest in his name.

I see you still haven't grasped the concept of the Old Testament vs the New Testament I spoke of earlier.

[1bad65]

This is from Exodus 34, and it is one of the passages that is often paraphrased into the form 1bad presented.

So, do you offer the first of every womb to God?

Do you observe the festival of unleavened bread?

I don't remember Jesus saying it was OK not to.

It appear you haven't figured out the difference yet either.

I'm still waiting on you to tell us the extent of your studies/experience in Christianity.....

I'm an atheist, and even I know that all the OT stuff went out the window with the NT. Learned that when I was getting my tree-hugging liberal arts degree before switching to the hard sciences.

Well said on many points David, BUT, while there is no doubt that Christianity was an "off-shoot)" of Judaisim, it is also very clear that it views itself as a "stand alone".
The New Covenant replaces the "obsolete" OC in Christianity.

Looks like these guys see the difference. Maybe they could explain it to you.

[1bad65]

Jesus was a social liberal. He urged care for the weak, the indigent, and the poor, and never questioned how they arrived at their station before attending to them. He would not approve of someone "looking down" on the poor.

Once again I point out Jesus never said to take others' possessions by force of law and then divvy it up among the poor.

But they are the ones with the most influence in the Republican party, which caters to them for their votes. So when Republicans get elected, they owe the fundamentalist wing and push their agenda--public funds for religious schools (vouchers), intelligent design in public schools, bans on gay unions, prayer in schools, religious symbols on public property, etc...

All of which amounts to nothing short of state-sponsored religious propoganda.

So which States have prayer in schools? Which States have vouchers?

Also, any bans or proposed bans have NEVER been done without a vote from the people. So if there are bans, you can't blame the evil Republicans, you have to blame the entire population of the States that have the bans.

[MasterKiller]

It appear you haven't figured out the difference yet either.

Yet, you are the one paraphrasing OT rules for living your life (though not all of them) even though you claim the OT was wiped by the NT.

I'm still waiting on you to tell us the extent of your studies/experience in Christianity.....

I will break down my religious studies experience when you break down your financial donations per dollar to nonpolitical chairty groups and organizations since you started working fulltime.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yet, this is NOT the "evangelical" fundamentalist approach, even though it is supported in the Gospel. They always fall back to the OT on issues such as gay marraige, or civil unions, which have no religious context at all. Their hypocricy is what this conversation was about in the first place.

Jesus was a social liberal. He urged care for the weak, the indigent, and the poor, and never questioned how they arrived at their station before attending to them. He would not approve of someone "looking down" on the poor.

The bible and even the Teachings of Jesus are open to interpretation, like anything else in this world and some will take the high road while others will not.
The issue is that God ( OT and NT alike) was a PERSONAL God, he was "the God of Abraham, of Jacob, of Isaac", Jesus made that relationship even MORE persoanl, He was Our Father and Salvation was a PERSONAL thing, not do to being born a certain way or part of a certain group, that is obsolete.
Evangelical may view things a certain way but NO ONE os forced to agree or follow their views.
We ALL answer for our OWN beliefs.

[MasterKiller]

Once again I point out Jesus never said to take others' possessions by force of law and then divvy it up among the poor.

He never said gay people shouldn't get married, either. So why do you oppose it?

So which States have prayer in schools? Which States have vouchers?

Do you deny there are groups in any state pushing these agendas?

Also, any bans or proposed bans have NEVER been done without a vote from the people. So if there are bans, you can't blame the evil Republicans, you have to blame the entire population of the States that have the bans.

And who do you think funds the majority of the antigay-union campaigns? Focus on the Family and the Mormon Church, both "Christian" organizations.

[sanjuro_ronin]

He never said gay people shouldn't get married, either. So why do you oppose it?

Do you deny there are groups in any state pushing these agendas?

And who do you think funds the majority of the antigay-union campaigns? Focus on the Family and the Mormon Church, both "Christian" organizations.

I don't think that Mormon's are Christians...