tao te ching

[Scott R. Brown]

Or was it put myself into eternal silence?

I forget....but since the silence is not truly silent I guess it doesn't matter!

[uki]

what is silence?? i lost 70% of my hearing on my 9th birthday and in place of clairity, all i got was this damn eternal song in my ears... a never-ending ringing... like water rushing in a cave of crickets chirping... complete with the echo effect. this "silence" has been my constant companion and my personal teacher... because of personal insecurity while i was younger, i drew into myself like a turtle - shunning a social life because i felt "handicapped", yet because of this, i was able to tap into myself, to tap into the vast resource of ones mind... i began doing everything i do all by myself - seeking and learning all i put my mind to. in this world, there are far more distractions than when the tao came to characters on paper, so many distractions that it's nearly impossible for anyone in this modern age to comprehend. what i find interesting is that people like to fight and squabble over what is the correct way or the correct method of cultivation, but i tell you that the way that can be named is not the true way, therefore, all folks arguing for the way are merely chasing ghosts... i do not need anyone to show me the way, the way has revealed itself to me... no one can push me off my path because i am not on a path, i am simply on my way... this is the way of nature. just be.

[Skip J.]

Skip,

Great to know you practice affirmation.

In my experience,
The Silence practice is one level deeper then the affirmation because it first scan to release or letting go the energy hold inside ; after the clean up, if one decide to manifest then affirm what one intended to create.

one needs to enter the silence or beingness to let go the hold on. if one cover the hold on with affirmation, that will become a struggle and the result will be mixed or depend on the intensity of the will. However, when enter into the silence, let go becomes effortless because the NON attachement is the default of the beingness.

Thanks Hendrik!

Ah yes, that is true... but as I said, I learned it western style... not TCM...

As western style is very close to self-hypnosis, because it is so powerful.. I will not teach it to others, even family. Maybe someday I can take and be trained in qi gong and then teach it after training.

So the affirmation I do and the silence beneath it are both of much less power than the traditional form you were trained in. I do see it though.....

[Skip J.]

what is silence?? i lost 70% of my hearing on my 9th birthday and in place of clairity, all i got was this damn eternal song in my ears... a never-ending ringing... like water rushing in a cave of crickets chirping... complete with the echo effect. this "silence" has been my constant companion and my personal teacher... because of personal insecurity while i was younger, i drew into myself like a turtle - shunning a social life because i felt "handicapped", yet because of this, i was able to tap into myself, to tap into the vast resource of ones mind... i began doing everything i do all by myself - seeking and learning all i put my mind to. in this world, there are far more distractions than when the tao came to characters on paper, so many distractions that it's nearly impossible for anyone in this modern age to comprehend. what i find interesting is that people like to fight and squabble over what is the correct way or the correct method of cultivation, but i tell you that the way that can be named is not the true way, therefore, all folks arguing for the way are merely chasing ghosts... i do not need anyone to show me the way, the way has revealed itself to me... no one can push me off my path because i am not on a path, i am simply on my way... this is the way of nature. just be.

Hey uki;

Thanks for that, you have no idea how close we think; even tho we traveled very different "paths" to get here.... I can see your hardships were real, and mine were mostly not....

Well at least you don't look like an old, fat, slow guy like me.... but I see an old soul in you I think...

[Hendrik]

Thanks Hendrik!

Ah yes, that is true... but as I said, I learned it western style... not TCM...

As western style is very close to self-hypnosis, because it is so powerful.. I will not teach it to others, even family. Maybe someday I can take and be trained in qi gong and then teach it after training.

So the affirmation I do and the silence beneath it are both of much less power than the traditional form you were trained in. I do see it though.....

Skip,

Thanks for sharing!

IMHO, I have learn both the east and west style. and for me, there actually are similar. and the only different is some process could get one deeper then other.

From what I was coached, silence needs to be totally effortless and light. one will feel the weight of a single thought as soon as that thought got brought up.

[Hendrik]

Hey uki;

Thanks for that, you have no idea how close we think; even tho we traveled very different "paths" to get here.... I can see your hardships were real, and mine were mostly not....

Well at least you don't look like an old, fat, slow guy like me.... but I see an old soul in you I think...

IMHO,

it is all about how to return to our default state. However, we have pile up with all the junk, so it help to have some one who has done it to lead one back from those confusing layer and layer of junk.

[Hendrik]

. i do not need anyone to show me the way, the way has revealed itself to me... no one can push me off my path because i am not on a path, i am simply on my way... this is the way of nature. just be.

Uki,

you certainly has some experience.

however, imho, you need to watch out for the above statement you made. because the "one" who made this statement is the problematic mind. this is an indication of an Doer exist. "me and my....etc"

IMHO
When one return to the silence or be , one becomes a witness not a doer. one watches this world similar to watching the movie, one will not identify one as the character in the movie and stuck within the movie.


Thus, being just be , there is no nature way, no my way, but just be because there is no mind needed no knowing needed no discrimination mechanism needed but just be. There one becomes intuitive.

just some thoughts.

[taai gihk yahn]

Uki,

you certainly has some experience.

however, imho, you need to watch out for the above statement you made. because the "one" who made this statement is the problematic mind. this is an indication of an Doer exist. "me and my....etc"

IMHO
When one return to the silence or be , one becomes a witness not a doer. one watches this world similar to watching the movie, one will not identify one as the character in the movie and stuck within the movie.

lol, and "who" is the one making this statement? [sits back to watch movie]

[Skip J.]

Skip,

Thanks for sharing!

IMHO, I have learn both the east and west style. and for me, there actually are similar. and the only different is some process could get one deeper then other.

From what I was coached, silence needs to be totally effortless and light. one will feel the weight of a single thought as soon as that thought got brought up.

Well, my class was only one hour a week for 6 weeks back in 1979. Whatever I didn't learn then I don't do now. It was only for stress relief and relaxation; not stop smoking or weight loss, so it was not quite self-hypnosis. That is all I use it for and frankly I can do taiji alone and get deeper than that now.

So I can kinda-sorta understand the power you speak of, and have thought about taking some qi gong when money is a little better.... but I've never done it myself. Hopefully I did not imply that???

[taai gihk yahn]

IMHO,

it is all about how to return to our default state. However, we have pile up with all the junk, so it help to have some one who has done it to lead one back from those confusing layer and layer of junk.

good lord, I agree with Hendrick!

the world must be about to end...

but seriously - yes, this is "correct" - we build up layers of habit, compensation, etc. - and yes, it can be HELPFUL (though not necessary) to have another person who has gone through the same process as a guide (as it has been in my case with my sifu)

the analogy is like a bent stick - when you try to unbend it, you just create another kink instead; however, if you just "allow" the organism to do what it wants "naturally", it can lead to resolution of many of a given individual's issues, depending of course as to what those issues are to begin with (not a concept unique to qigong or even so-called "eastern" thought - you find this in various so-called "western" practices as well, such as the phenommenon of unwinding in osteopathic medicine); for example, if one tries to consciously manipulate breathing, one will get certain effects, but if one allows the breath to spontaneously self-regulate, you will get others - each approach is of benefit at different times; another analogy would be a tangled telephone cord - if you try to pick it apart by hand to untwist it, it won't happen - but if you just take the receiver off the hook and let it dangle, the cord will untwist itself (most of the time, sometimes it may need some "help"...), spinning around in different directions until it comes to a resting point of relative equilibrium;

there are certianly impications for healing here - meaning that if the system is self-regulating optimally, many "diseases" (hypertension, for example) ought to diminish / resolve; you may even "cure" yourself of other things, given that if the immune system functions optimally, it has a better chance of dealing with external pathogens; as such, achieving a sort of "stillness" in the physiology (and the mind, of course, given that mental stress is a key component of all this) is an important aspect of this (Hendrick's idea of "silence" is akin to this - but it's nothing mystical, it's in context of alowing al the background activity to diminish / stop in order for the system to self-regulate optimally - and this can be achieved in various ways)

the important thing here though, is not to over generalize about the effects of this sort of thing - it will be diffeernt for everyone, even though there is a generalized effect - so to calim that qigong of any type will predictably heal specific ailments is dicey - one needs must be very careful in making claims beyond the scope of what is demonstrable objectively...

[Skip J.]

Thanks taai;

That is well said! Add me to the list, that makes 3......

What has me so tied to taiji is that I naturally "feel" without thinking about it that taiji "visualization" of the form movements and applications is the same visualizations I used for 30 years of stress relief and relaxation.

Back to my original point, which may only be valid for me - is that to me taiji is not boring; in fact it is very interesting to think about. So I think it is truly amazing that I can fully relax by thinking about sticking my elbow completely thru the enemy while performing it slowwwlllyy.

It's a double win-win, it consumes my adrenaline flow while gently working out the physical body. And, I can do it every day.... amazing

[Hendrik]

Well, my class was only one hour a week for 6 weeks back in 1979. Whatever I didn't learn then I don't do now. It was only for stress relief and relaxation; not stop smoking or weight loss, so it was not quite self-hypnosis. That is all I use it for and frankly I can do taiji alone and get deeper than that now.

So I can kinda-sorta understand the power you speak of, and have thought about taking some qi gong when money is a little better.... but I've never done it myself. Hopefully I did not imply that???

Skip,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Great!

IMHO,

To enter silence using the first standing post of Taiji is good enough.

Just Stand there and Wait quietly.
similar to when waiting for others to complete their sentence in the middle of conversation, while others pause for a while. There one enter into silence. There one's mind is quiet and let go a wait.

The things needs to the careful is when one get out of this state one needs to get out gradually, slowly move the body. So, for senior is better to do it while one is sitting or taking a rest. so one doesnt fall. For taichi , it is always a plus when one enter into silence lightly then continuous the forms. and at the end of the form one get back to the silence lightly and slowly gradually return to normal daily state.


Just some thoughts.

[Hendrik]

the important thing here though, is not to over generalize about the effects of this sort of thing - it will be diffeernt for everyone, even though there is a generalized effect - so to calim that qigong of any type will predictably heal specific ailments is dicey - one needs must be very careful in making claims beyond the scope of what is demonstrable objectively...

Certainly true that one needs to know what type of process one is practicing, what is the pro and con. and what is the history and result of the process. and that need a sifu, a lineage transmission to attain the result. Thus, sifu in this case is extremely important.

[Skip J.]

Skip,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Great!

IMHO,

To enter silence using the first standing post of Taiji is good enough.

Just Stand there and Wait quietly.
similar to when waiting for others to complete their sentence in the middle of conversation, while others pause for a while. There one enter into silence. There one's mind is quiet and let go a wait.

The things needs to the careful is when one get out of this state one needs to get out gradually, slowly move the body. So, for senior is better to do it while one is sitting or taking a rest. so one doesnt fall. For taichi , it is always a plus when one enter into silence lightly then continuous the forms. and at the end of the form one get back to the silence lightly and slowly gradually return to normal daily state.


Just some thoughts.

Yes!

I do standing post before beginning warm-ups and at the beginning of each form set, no matter which form. This is something I can teach to beginners, which is my only teaching level. The recent article in Gene's magazine by Bosco Seung-Chul Baek about Master Chen Bing's standing post is just wonderful.

I can take it to class to show the beginners a set of pictures. It's so very hard to learn without pictures... I think.

Thank you for reminding me to teach that you come out of it slowly, especially the old folks!

And thanks Gene for the article!

[Hendrik]

Yes!

I do standing post before beginning warm-ups and at the beginning of each form set, no matter which form. This is something I can teach to beginners, which is my only teaching level. The recent article in Gene's magazine by Bosco Seung-Chul Baek about Master Chen Bing's standing post is just wonderful.

I can take it to class to show the beginners a set of pictures. It's so very hard to learn without pictures... I think.

Thank you for reminding me to teach that you come out of it slowly, especially the old folks!

And thanks Gene for the article!

Skip,

you are welcome.

Great to know you have done it.


When I learn from my sifu, I dont know what is silence and the mind keep spinning /visualize....etc trying to create silence . So my sifu suddently stop for about 1 min while he was talking. I was waiting there relax and loose sitting for that 1 min. and my sifu told me, silence is that state when you are waiting. now you know the state. So, dont think just get into that state.

Without this coaching I will not be able to enter silence with all kinds of visualization or thinking. That is my personal experience.

Also, this silence can be done when we go to sleep. laying down in the bed, get comfort, let every part of the body loose and finally let go the thoughts in that relaxing wait state. doing only waiting. and let the whole body and mind dissolve by itself and sleep.

Again, the important thing is one needs to gradually move the fingers and toes, and then elbow and knees.... and massage the face before get out of the laying or sitting position. This is very good for the senior people to cultivate Qi. also it is great practice when senior cant sleep at night.

whatever closer to Dao is simple and easy and effortless.


just some thoughts.