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Thread: Qigong and/Vs Modern Strength training

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    i said this!
    And it was worth repeating, LOL !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    And building big muscles is only ONE very small part of ST and not one that most athletes use anyway.
    And in many cases building stronger muscles without adding unnecessary size is the preference!

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    And in many cases building stronger muscles without adding unnecessary size is the preference!
    true but a number of athletes not in a weight class sport (or in the middle of their weight class) will look to add muscle to their frame for reasons like reducing the risk of injury or simply increasing body mass. getting bigger is not always a bad thing.

  4. #49
    In MOST sports there is a point of diminishing returns for size, thus aerobic athletes are lean for a reason, as well as gymnasts, Very few athletes function as efficiency with unlimited size. While there is nearly no limit to the benefits of strength, except when its brings with it inefficient size for the functional needs of the athlete!

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    And in many cases building stronger muscles without adding unnecessary size is the preference!
    Most of the athletes that do ST, do it for strength with minimal or no size increase.
    Its actually pretty easy to build strength with minimal size increase.
    Low reps with heavy weights, low volume with minimal or no hypertrophy work.
    I do laugh at people when they see they don't do weights because they don't wanna look like a bodybuilder !
    That's like a guy saying he doesn't run because he doesn't wanna break the world record, LOL !
    The fact is, you go to any gym and you see very few bodybuilders (though you will find many that think they are !).
    We all know that guy, the guy that does weights for a few weeks and thinks he is so buff he is ripping all his shirts and has arms smaller than our grandmas !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Most of the athletes that do ST, do it for strength with minimal or no size increase.
    Its actually pretty easy to build strength with minimal size increase.
    Low reps with heavy weights, low volume with minimal or no hypertrophy work.
    I do laugh at people when they see they don't do weights because they don't wanna look like a bodybuilder !
    That's like a guy saying he doesn't run because he doesn't wanna break the world record, LOL !
    The fact is, you go to any gym and you see very few bodybuilders (though you will find many that think they are !).
    We all know that guy, the guy that does weights for a few weeks and thinks he is so buff he is ripping all his shirts and has arms smaller than our grandmas !
    That is what I just said, It is Frost you need to address this too!

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    In MOST sports there is a point of diminishing returns for size, thus aerobic athletes are lean for a reason, as well as gymnasts, Very few athletes function as efficiency with unlimited size. While there is nearly no limit to the benefits of strength, except when its brings with it inefficient size for the functional needs of the athlete!
    who said unlimited size, i said alot of athletes look to add some mass to protect themselves and to add bulk if they are on the lighter end of the weight class.

    American footballers, boxer and MMA guys looking to dominate their weight catagory are some of the athletes who benefit from increased size.

    size and aerobic capacity can be trained together. in the world of rugby union the average size of the backs has gone from around 150 to 160 pounds to around 200 to 220 pounds and upwards in about a decade, and the game has gotten faster harder and more arebically challanging. the guys are bigger, stronger better conditioned and hit a h8ll of a lot harder.

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    who said unlimited size, i said alot of athletes look to add some mass to protect themselves and to add bulk if they are on the lighter end of the weight class.

    American footballers, boxer and MMA guys looking to dominate their weight catagory are some of the athletes who benefit from increased size.

    size and aerobic capacity can be trained together. in the world of rugby union the average size of the backs has gone from around 150 to 160 pounds to around 200 to 220 pounds and upwards in about a decade, and the game has gotten faster harder and more arebically challanging. the guys are bigger, stronger better conditioned and hit a h8ll of a lot harder.
    Perhaps you did not read my original post carefully enough then:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    And in many cases building stronger muscles without adding unnecessary size is the preference!

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    That is what I just said, It is Frost you need to address this too!
    address away i said some athletes look to add size, and that you can do this without compremising aerobic capacity if you train correctly, as with all things its a trade off but in some cases adding bulk helps the athlete

  10. #55
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    There will always be SOME size, especially if the athlete has never done ST before.
    But it won't be anything that will be detrimental to his/her performance.
    Frost is right though, some do look to add, I know I did when I was younger and weighted only 140 and was comepting in kyokushin with no weight classes.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    I get the feeling you are biased towards juggling!
    it's not bias, it's applying the TMA approach of repetition in order to ingrain it into ones being... besides, new members might not have heard of my iron ball juggling yet.

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    address away i said some athletes look to add size, and that you can do this without compremising aerobic capacity if you train correctly, as with all things its a trade off but in some cases adding bulk helps the athlete
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    There will always be SOME size, especially if the athlete has never done ST before.
    But it won't be anything that will be detrimental to his/her performance.
    Frost is right though, some do look to add, I know I did when I was younger and weighted only 140 and was comepting in kyokushin with no weight classes.
    Well Duh!! You two are either not reading carefully enough, or reading what you want to read into my comment. so I will be more specific:

    I never said anything against gaining size. There is natural law of diminishing returns for every athletic endeavor where excessive size diminishes skill and/or aerobic capacity. The emphasis is on SIZE, not strength.

    You will never see a correction elite (world class) 350lb. gymnast, decathlete, cross country skier, swimmer, marathon runner, pole vaulter, high jumper, soccer player, ice skater, etc for a reason!
    Last edited by Scott R. Brown; 03-22-2010 at 08:26 AM.

  13. #58
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    I never said anything against gaining size. There is natural law of diminishing returns for every athletic endeavor where excessive size diminishes skill and/or aerobic capacity. The emphasis is on SIZE, not strength.

    You will never see a correction elite (world class) 350lb. gymnast, decathlete, cross country skier, swimmer, marathon runner, pole vaulter, high jumper, soccer player, ice skater, etc for a reason!
    Agreed, 100%
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  14. #59
    Frost,

    Hello,

    Not always... For sprinters, okay, sure...Sport specific, depends on the movement and too many other things to list here. I doubt that practicing sprinting slow would hurt a sprinter's structure, but I am not a part of that field of sports so I don't want to speculate about that.

    But, go buy a wiffle ball bat and practice swinging it as fast as you can then swing a regular bat. Opposite, put weight rings on the end of the regular bat and do the same thing. You will swing faster after practicing with the wiffle ball bat or no bat at all. Same goes for a golf club. In Western terms, it's because of muscle memory, basically and only basically. But, it wont work with extremes; like if you do it with a wushu Tiger Fork then a 90 pound Tiger Fork.

    It really depends on what you are doing and how you are tricking your body.

    Then again, anyone who isn't doing both is lying to themselves about their potential.

    Will someone who practices on a 200 pound heavy bag be faster or slower than someone who practices on a 300 pound heavy bag? It varies, and depends on what they are practicing on the heavy bag, right?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    other coaches prefer to develop general strength first and then make that sports specific.
    The problem is there exist no "general strength training" that can help me to "enhance" my leg twisting (Kawazu gake). It's a special muscle function that even the best body builder in the world won't know thow to develop it.

    http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8...headweight.jpg
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 03-22-2010 at 07:45 PM.

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