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Thread: Progression without Chi Sao, is it possible?

  1. #1

    Progression without Chi Sao, is it possible?

    Is it possible to adavance in Wing Chun without having trained in chi sao. I know that is is a preset form of sparing to practice techniques learned in forms, but can u advance without it. If anyone can recommend good teachers in Northern Ohio I would be greatly appreciated. :-)

  2. #2
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    There are a lot of things you can practice in Wing Chun that don't involve Chi Sao. These are the things that a lot of people neglect because it isn't as exciting. Footwork including taking different angles and 180 degree turns (Mobility is extremely important), shifting drills going through pak sao, tan sao, bong sao, etc, punching and kicking power using heavy bags and wallbags, stepping and punching. And during all this, always be aware of your centerline and make sure you face the opponent's centerline. For my drills, I use a broomstick to represent my opponent's centerline and I always face it. Sensitivity training from Chi Sao is of course necessary to really understand trapping and simultaneous attack and defense. But perfecting your punches, kicks, and footwork is an art all unto itself. Remember that the goal of Wing Chun is NOT to trap. The goal is to attack the opponent's centerline. Trapping helps you do that by making sure you can get the shot in. But there are times when you can just go right in and you don't even need to trap.

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinstudent View Post
    Is it possible to adavance in Wing Chun without having trained in chi sao. I know that is is a preset form of sparing to practice techniques learned in forms, but can u advance without it. If anyone can recommend good teachers in Northern Ohio I would be greatly appreciated. :-)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Short answer- no---you are likely to end up with something other than wing chun. Depends on whether you want to learn wing chun. There are other non wing chun styles and methods.
    Later, there are many ways to do footwork with chi sao and moving. You should search for a decent teacher.
    Buddy Wu may still be teaching near Cleveland.


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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinstudent View Post
    Is it possible to adavance in Wing Chun without having trained in chi sao. I know that is is a preset form of sparing to practice techniques learned in forms, but can u advance without it. If anyone can recommend good teachers in Northern Ohio I would be greatly appreciated. :-)
    I'd say you could learn to use wing chun without the chi sao--but this is assuming of course that you're doing everything else in the wing chun curriculum like the partner drills, sparring, and the like; and if you're going to do that you might as well do the chi sao. To bottom line is that you need to work with PEOPLE to really excel in wing chun. To be honest the same is true of any style, but wing chun moreso because our style focuses on a range of fighting that requires high levels touch sensitivity to gain proficiency.
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."

  6. #6
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    IMO if you don't have chi sao, forms or points, dummy training and the weapons, you don't have Wing Chun.

    Lots of people have learned to fight well enough without chi sao, but IMO they are then not practising Wing Chun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinstudent View Post
    Is it possible to adavance in Wing Chun without having trained in chi sao. I know that is is a preset form of sparing to practice techniques learned in forms, but can u advance without it. If anyone can recommend good teachers in Northern Ohio I would be greatly appreciated. :-)
    I assume you are asking because you want to try and train without exposure to someone who can do ChiSao?

    The answer is yes and no.

    Yes, you can train some WCK elements both with and without a partner..if you know what they are..

    No, it will never impart the same benefits of good ChiSao work.

    It's tough to find good instruction.. Look hard and try to find the right place...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinstudent View Post
    Is it possible to adavance in Wing Chun without having trained in chi sao. I know that is is a preset form of sparing to practice techniques learned in forms, but can u advance without it. If anyone can recommend good teachers in Northern Ohio I would be greatly appreciated. :-)
    Whole heartedly yes. My lineage rarely ever practices chi sao nor do we use the dummy. Everything is done out of movement. Chi sao serves as a distractor from more proven training methods. There is a reason why some of the best examples of WC are often done by people who aren't Self-proclaimed WC practitioners.
    Last edited by HumbleWCGuy; 03-21-2010 at 02:11 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinstudent View Post
    Is it possible to adavance in Wing Chun without having trained in chi sao. I know that is is a preset form of sparing to practice techniques learned in forms, but can u advance without it. If anyone can recommend good teachers in Northern Ohio I would be greatly appreciated. :-)
    Chi sao is not sparring. Wing Chun is not karate. Of course it is possible to advance in Wing Chun without learning chi sao.

    What's the real question here? "My new teacher insisted that I learn the form first, but it is too boring..will someone please confirm that he is doing it wrong?"

    Directory of Wing Chun schools in Ohio:
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    Last edited by MartialDev; 03-21-2010 at 02:40 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinstudent View Post
    Is it possible to adavance in Wing Chun without having trained in chi sao. I know that is is a preset form of sparing to practice techniques learned in forms, but can u advance without it. If anyone can recommend good teachers in Northern Ohio I would be greatly appreciated. :-)

    IMO it's possible to advance in WC without chi sao but up to a point what can't be leaent in drills and sparring chisao must be used to develope those skills. How can you lean how to feel energy if you don do any chi sao type training? the better question would be do you need chi sao to fight and to that answer i would say no..
    Last edited by stonecrusher69; 03-21-2010 at 03:16 PM.
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  11. #11
    You can do wing chun without chi sao...but if you have real strong chi sao skills (and skills in other drills, wooden dummy, weapons, forms, etc.) - you have better wing chun.

  12. #12
    not all Wing Chun schools have the same chi sao format, some are a lot more like toi sao, and some don't seem to emphasize chi sao drills any where near as much as others. So can you progress without it? Yes, BUT why??? can a boxer progress without focus mitts? Important tools are used and should be kept by those who know how to use them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinstudent View Post
    Is it possible to adavance in Wing Chun without having trained in chi sao. I know that is is a preset form of sparing to practice techniques learned in forms, but can u advance without it. If anyone can recommend good teachers in Northern Ohio I would be greatly appreciated. :-)
    if you mean to use wing chun style of fighting without chi-sao...possibly..but i think time is better spent learning a non-chi sao fighting art like western boxing for example and go that route.

    The answer you're looking for though..is no. chi-sao not only does the obvious like arm sensitivity, but the concept of structure and muscle building in a wing chun context can't be replicated or built upon any other way..no machine or drill can replicate the benefits, the physiological effects, of chi-sao training.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by YungChun View Post
    I assume you are asking because you want to try and train without exposure to someone who can do ChiSao?

    The answer is yes and no.

    Yes, you can train some WCK elements both with and without a partner..if you know what they are..

    No, it will never impart the same benefits of good ChiSao work.

    It's tough to find good instruction.. Look hard and try to find the right place...

    What do you want to get out of the training?


    What I am wanting out of my training is to know that if anything happens around me, I can defend myself and my friends, if need be! What else can you want out of training, besides being able to beat people up?

  15. #15
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    Being able to beat people up is important. In order to defend one's self and his loved ones, he has to be able to beat people up. Simple as that. And yes, you can learn good Wing Chun fighting without chi sao as such. Actually, In my opinion, chi sao is just another drill. It is designed only to allow you to learn the proper way to apply certain pary techniques. The chi sao is exactly what it implies. It is training the chi or proper alignment and energy of these same techinques. I was told early in my training not to let it take on a life of its own. It is not fighting and does not lead to the ability to fight. It is just another drill. In order for you to actually learn the proper applications of what you learn you really need a friend to work with. Both can learn together. However, unless you have an understanding of such things you really need to find someone that can teach you.

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