Does San Shou Dispell the MMA Myth That Takedowns Prevent Combinations?

[HumbleWCGuy]

I know that his is only one video but it almost seems like the opposite is true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bfdabj06SU

[SAAMAG]

That was a good san shou vid! I especially like the ending when the ref is trying to count for the unconcious dude.

[Frost]

not really, you saw a some very nice combinations in that video, however towards the end you saw people throwing punches and getting takedown as well

I believe tha takedowns in san shou do not allow the knee to hit the ground, this changes things a lot, look at the takedowns in MMA when people are throwing punches, you nornally see low doubles or singles, people ducking under the punches and attacking the planted legs, also takedowns are only one of the reasons for not seeing that many combinations, the small gloves, no headgear, the fact the have to also be weary fo being run into the cage and takedown against it are others (neither of which you see in san shou)

really nice video though thanks!

[SoCo KungFu]

Ummmm....the fact that we train combos in MMA dispels the myth that takedowns prevent combinations in MMA...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Beautiful clip, those guys stuck out.

[Frost]

Ummmm....the fact that we train combos in MMA dispels the myth that takedowns prevent combinations in MMA...

You might have missed the discussion so ill recap it for you (apologies if I miss anything out)
The argument was that the stand-up in MMA is very poor hence the relative lack of combinations you find in boxing/MMA/Thai.
The counter argument was that yes they have less time to spend on striking as grappling is more important and takes up allot to time to learn, but even good strikers coming into MMA have to change due to the following
1) Smaller gloves mean you can't afford to take as many hits; they leak through most defences and hurt alot more
2) Fear of takedowns mean you have to be more mobile, throw more straight line power punches to keep them at bay as you use mobile footwork
3) no restarts if you get hurt and the opponents ability to follow you to the ground make you more circumspect about standing and trading and throwing long combos (there are no standing counts or knockdown rules in MMA) if you get hurt you are stopped and you lose.
4) Smaller gloves mean you can throw more odd angle punches that can get through and hurt your opponent hence alot of looping swinging punches are thrown too)

There was more to the argument but it’s slipped my mind for now!

[HumbleWCGuy]

not really, you saw a some very nice combinations in that video, however towards the end you saw people throwing punches and getting takedown as well

I believe tha takedowns in san shou do not allow the knee to hit the ground, this changes things a lot, look at the takedowns in MMA when people are throwing punches, you nornally see low doubles or singles, people ducking under the punches and attacking the planted legs, also takedowns are only one of the reasons for not seeing that many combinations, the small gloves, no headgear, the fact the have to also be weary fo being run into the cage and takedown against it are others (neither of which you see in san shou)

really nice video though thanks!

I am surprised that you don't view this video as another nail into the coffin of that myth. Especially in light of the fact that the best mma strikers are all good combination punchers.

[SoCo KungFu]

All those are well and good but...

Strikers will work combos. Grapplers will use grappling to nullify them. Its really not as complicated as everyone is trying to make it out to be.

As far as that "other" argument you mentioned, I think I read it but it was full of fail so I don't really care what was in there. Its not that combinations are lacking in MMA, its that reality is a hell of a lot harder than theoryboxing that everyone here (minus a few who we all know who they are) seems to be so fond of.

Its not a hard concept. Its just really f'n hard to strike well when the other guy is hell bent on tying you up in knots.

[SoCo KungFu]

I am surprised that you don't view this video as another nail into the coffin of that myth. Especially in light of the fact that the best mma strikers are all good combination punchers.

The best MMA strikers also happen to have some of the most refined ground game. Coincidence?

[HumbleWCGuy]

You have contradicted yourself in this thread.

Ummmm....the fact that we train combos in MMA dispels the myth that takedowns prevent combinations in MMA...

Its not a hard concept. Its just really f'n hard to strike well when the other guy is hell bent on tying you up in knots.

[SoCo KungFu]

You have contradicted yourself in this thread.

No I haven't

[SoCo KungFu]

I really don't see what the disconnect is.

*Combos are trained in MMA

*Good strikers use combos

*Good grapplers can make it difficult to strike

*And again, the best strikers are also really good on the ground.

What's so hard to understand?

[Frost]

I am surprised that you don't view this video as another nail into the coffin of that myth. Especially in light of the fact that the best mma strikers are all good combination punchers.

What you mean that video of guys in head gear with big boxing gloves who are not allowed to hit takedowns off the knees.... That video? Is it somehow meant to show how MMA fighters should strike..... you might as well stick a boxing match up there for us to watch

the fact is MMA is a lot different from san shou/boxing/Thai boxing and the striking strategy used reflects this...hence good Thai guys in MMA look different not as fluid etc...do a few look really good striking yes and as has been pointed out those guys have really good ground games so don't fear the takedown as much

[Lucas]

if you have two bodies of foot soldiers attack each other, there will be a charge, and a clash of the vanguards, with a variance of maneuvering, but your options are limited to your tools. add archers into the equation and the battle array will change, add mounted flanks, and yet again even further changes, not only to the array of troops but in the order of deployment, utilization of tactics based on your combination of weapons/troops available, terrain etc...

i look at the strats and tactics used in sport fights along these lines.

some guys have more foot in their army, some more horse, some more archers. so depending on your combination of your troops/skillsets you'll see appropriate accomidation.

and some mofo's just have huge ass armies with all the weapons so you cant possibly hope to face them with your meager force.

[MasterKiller]

Ummmm....the fact that we train combos in MMA dispels the myth that takedowns prevent combinations in MMA...

You don't see many 4 or 5 string combos in MMA. Check out Cung's fights against Frank Shamrock or Scott Smith. Rarely is there anything more than a 1- 2- combo thrown.