Tai Chi Praying Mantis Specialties

[molum_jr]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mantis108:
Hi Molum_jr,

Thanks for the info. Correct me if I have misunderstood you, Kam Yuen did studied some Tai Chi Praying Mantis and went on to develope Tai Mantis with the help of Raymond Wong? It would be interesting to see how these 2 systems come together. Have you seen the style?
[/quote]

No, Raymond Wong did not help develop Tai Mantis. The only thing I've heard is that the surviving disciples in the USA of CCK have created a Tai Chi Mantis Assc. They do not "approve" of the Tai Mantis videos* being hawked by a student of Kam.

*Available thru Curtis Wong's Unique Publications (Inside Kungfu fame).

[mantis108]

Hi Mulum,

Thanks for clarifying.

Hi byz,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Having been a Taijiquan practitioner before studying TCPM, I readily agree that the two are very complementary. A big misconception by people unfamiliar with the system is that Taijiquan and Tang Lang were combined from the start when it was really the concept of Taiji (Yin/Yang and other complementary principles) that it tries to manifest. After learning Mo Waahn Jeung and Daan Yahn Teui Sau, I can see why CJK included them into his system! I find them wonderfully invigorating and the sense of qi flowing comes across very quickly.
I hadn't heard of CJK's vision for TCPM. I have an idea from what you write, but could you expound on that a little more for the benefit of the group?

Being at heart a Taijiquan practitioner, the Taai Gihk Jeung sets are my favorite at the moment, but I do enjoy the other routines such as Lan Jiht. How close do you play to Tse Wing Ming's text? I have seen my teacher's copy of the Muhk Yahn Johng, but don't have a copy myself. Is it still available somewhere?[/quote]

Very insightful post. We have to answer to that question all the time. Some are highly skeptical of our ligitimacy. The injection of the Taiji components is an effort of Sigung. Prior to his time, there was not a Taijiquan section within the TCPM. I believe he was impressed by the fighting ability of the Taiji practitioners that he sought out Taijiquan. We must also remember that there were other TCPM masters and practitioners (Sigung's peers at the time)who were not exposed to any Taiji system and might have passed on their versions of the art. This, of course, doesn't mean that they are not practicing the style. It is just that their vision is different from Sigung. I am of the opinion that it is more beneficial for TCPM to include the Taiji section in the curriculum.

Taiji Jeung is very unique. Personally, I prefer that to Taijiquan. The first 10 moves of Lan jeet (sep dai lin wan pek), I do them somewhat resembling Chen style Laojia. The 2 chops with the Taiji Stance are done sort of like the "Gum Gong Dou Chiu" Faa Jing. I think structure wise, we are close. I met Tse Wing Ming once or twice at Sigung's place in HK. He was quite consume by his sword collection. The conversations he had with the others were more about his swords.

The book is still available. If you need more info on that please let me know.

Also, I will contact you on Chen style Taiji. I love to learn more about both jias as they are beneficial to TCPM.

Thanks

Mantis108


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[Taijimantis]

Please read my post regarding Sigung Chuk-Kai or contact me at my e-mail address:
Taiji Mantis@aol.com

You sound like you may be able to help me.

Thank you!
Buddha Smiles!

namaste.

C.

[ShaolinMantis]

Greetings.

On David Carridine:
He did study with Kam Yuen and also my Sihing when in Canada. He did not Study Taiji Mantis per say. He did study Northern Shaolin and Lohan.
The Taiji that is on his video ( poorly done ) is a real Taiji set. It was taught to Sifu Kam by Sigung Wong Jac Man ( The Bruce Lee fighter ) who learned it from Jing Mo or Jing Wu in China I forget which it is. as far a Carridine, we use to laugh at his Kung Fu. Most of the fight scenes from both show were done by doubles, either Sifu or Rob Sihing.

Off topic, I have been trying to contact other Taiji mantis people here, but no one wants to list their eMail. Mine is listed, but to be sure, I can be contacted here as I do not know how much time I have to put into posting here. Shifu@shao-lin-dao.com

Mantis108 : are you with Wong Sisuk's school? or in Alberta?

[ShaolinMantis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by word:
Kam Yuen's " Energetic Healing" is fake. [/quote]

Fake is a rather strong word. People have said that about many forms of Chi Gong, Kung fu, people. Questionable maybe a better more respectful word.

I have seen and felt this healing. It is not fake, it is also not 100% effective. It has it weakness.

[ShaolinMantis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mantis108:
Hi byz,

Welcome aboard. Great to have a brother form Sigung's Vietnam branch. We, the younger students and Grand students, have alway wanted to know more about that era of Sigung's life and career. I study under my mentor Galen Fok, who is GM CJK's disciple. There are 3 hand forms and a sword form from the Taiji portion. The Taiji Forms are used as warm ups in the HK Kwoon in the latter years of Sigung's teaching. The Taijiquan and Dan Tui Sau (single push hand) are, or I was told, from Chen system Xiaojia (small circle). Dan Tui Sau in a way reminiscent of Poa Tsui of the Laojia. Quite Frankly, I'm open to explore more on this. Mor Wan Jeung (Cloudy Plam) is from a Taoist monastery according to an article in the Wooden Dummy Form Book which was approve by Sigung himself. As for the structure of the Taijiquan, it is very close to the full Yang style structure (definitely not simplified) with extra kicks. According to Wong Ching Bill, who studied in Vietnam, the Vietnam curriculum is quite different from HK's. The Dai/Sui Fan Chair are not in the HK curriculum. During my time with Sigung, we notice some changes with forms also. For example Jeet Kuen, one of the hook hands use to be a long fist type of hook hands extended out to the side of the body. It was later taught as a mantis hook guarding the side of the head. We too had a debate over such changes. I surmise that was an intention to show us the offensive and defense positions of the same hand. Anyway, I can go on all day about it. If you are interested in getting more infomation, please feel free to contact me at sifu1@internorth.com . I also love to know more about your view on Taijiquan.

Thanks for clearifying the Kam Yuen's background. I often tought that Tai Mantis and Tai Chi Praying Mantis is two different systems. I guess this will settle that.

Mantis108

[/quote]

Sigung style of Taiji mantis does have a Taiji set. It is not Chen. One of the elder students from Boston, Jung Sibak asked this past summer of Ling SiSuk what has Chen style that our Taiji from Sigung does not. Showing the sets are not the same. The Taiji Mantis Taiji looks somewhat like a cross between Baqua, Chen & Yang

TaiMantis & Taiji Mantis are different beings. Although sometimes spoken of as the same. Paul Eng, Kam Yuen, Raymond Wong, started the TaiMantis Assoc. schools here in Ca back in the 60's/70's. It is a combination of Northern Shaolin, Lohan, 7 Star, Taiji Mantis, Taiji, and a couple other elements from BaQua and Hing Yi.
TaiChi (Taiji) Praying Mantis is another being all together. Although...it has also combintions from other styles as Sigung studied other things as well.

[ShaolinMantis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by byz:
Hi Mantis108!

On another note, I understand Kam Yuen practices Tai Mantis not Tai Chi Mantis. Talking with my teacher and a friend who was a student from the Kam Yuen school, it is a mixture of Mantis with the Law Hon Mi Jong system.

Thank you for sharing!
byz[/quote]

Please, who is your teacher and this friend?

*****
Is anyone here ( taiji mantis ) attending the Memorial Banquet fro the Sigung next month in Oakland?

[mantis108]

Hi Taijimantis,

I would like to take this opportunity to rally support for your article and hope that our TCPM Masters, brothers and sisters would contribute and share this wonderful art with the world. Your effort should be commanded.

Hi ShaolinMantis,

Welcome aboard. The reason behind this thread is to open a communication line to all TCPM practitioners. So, please let all our brothers and sisters know that they are not alone even if they are at remote areas. lol... I know this because I'm in Northwest Terroitries, Canada. Are you referring to Jack Wong in Vancouver. I've not been in contact with him for awhile. I should in the near future. We use to do lots of lion dances togather. Also, I've heard that there is a tournament comming up in seattle and he may be attending. BTW, if you don't mind my asking your lineage. Please feel free to contact me. Just lick on my e-mail address listed above. Thank you for keeping this thread alive. Finally, as much as I love to attend the oakland function, I wouldn't be able to make it. Is this an annul event? Hope to be able to do it sometime in the future.

Mantis108

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[Paul Skrypichayko]

Shaolin Mantis,

I noticed you mention Alberta in regards to Tai Chi Praying Mantis. I'm from Edmonton, Alberta, and learned a tiny bit of TCPM from a man who claims to be CCK's student from Hong Kong and Vietnam. His name is Ng Tai Man, and he is in his late 50's.

My sifu was friend's with Ng Tai Man's sihing, a man named Peter Tsang (passed away around 1991). Mr Tsang was apparently very very good at martial arts, and a genius at chess, and other things.

If you'd like to email me, here is my address hung_ga @hotmail.com

Most people do have their emails listed on their profiles here, but due to the construction on this site, all kinds of stuff is screwed up and not listed.

[ShaolinMantis]

Hello again
Thank you for the welcome.

a brief bio on me: Before Mantis I did , Choy Li Fut & Sotokan karate ( black Belt )
I started studying with Kam Yuen in 1978. Doing Northern Shaolin, 7 Star Mantis, Taiji Mantis, Ba Qua, Hing Yi, Taiji, Lohan.
In 1983 after being asst. instructor for about 3 years at the Torrence school I moved to the East Coast to teach. I was there until 1986. 1987 I started the Bay Shaolin Acadmey in the S.F. Bay Area and started studying on and off with Paul Eng ( current President of the USA CCK TCPM Federation ). Over the Last 1.5 years I have had the honor of being coached by Wong Lam Ling ( Vice President of the USA CCK TCPM Federation )to bring my Taiji Mantis sets to the Federation Standardized forms.

Out of 5 diciples who are teaching from Kam Yuen's line I am number 2 in senority

In the Bay area we have: 2 schools in San Francisco, 1 in Walnut Creek, 1 in Martinez (mine), and Eng Shifu's in Campbell. There are many Sibaks and Sisuks from Viet Nam also in the area who are not teaching , but are involved with the Federation.

We have small group gatherings to practice and visit from time to time at Eng shifu's school, in Campbell, which is in the South Bay below San Jose.


The USA CCK TCPM Federation has a annual Banquet for the Late GrandMaster. This year will be the 9th gathering. We have a very large Chinese dinner, demos, an social time. The following week there is a seminar ( 4hrs a day for 5 days )held by several of the senior students of Sigung.

I will pass on info to my brothers, who are online about this group. It is nice to make contact with distant family. As we are always in seeking to embrace other members.

As this is off topic I will write private Mails.

Oh yeah, we, the Bay Area Group will be attending the Tournament in Sept. to support Sisuk Jack Wong's efforts, with about 15 people.

[Enlightment]

Hi Mantis108!
On another note, I understand Kam Yuen practices Tai Mantis not Tai Chi Mantis. Talking with my teacher and a friend who was a student from the Kam Yuen school, it is a mixture of Mantis with the Law Hon Mi Jong system.

Thank you for sharing!
byz


______________________


Actually Taimantis is the same as Tai Chi Mantis. It's just a shorter way of saying it.

[mantis108]

Hi All,

First off, welcome aboard Enlightenment.

Great info. exchange going on here, thanks for everyone's input.

Please forgive my presistance. The reason that I put forth this thread is that there seems to be a confusion regarding Tai Chi Praying Mantis and Tai Mantis. I for one am not convinced that they are the same system. The specialties listed above were taught by Sigong Chui Chuk Kai. I am of the opinion that regardless of the name differences, a Tai Chi Praying Mantis practitioner should be aware of these specialties wheather or not his or her linage includes all or some of them. I have not yet come across any info. regarding the Tai Mantis curriculum nor do I know of Sifu Kam Yuen's teaching. I repect and admire Sifu Kam Yuen's contribution to the CMA community. As far as I am concern, Knowing Sigung would welcome anyone even if he only learned TCPM for a very limited time as a member of the TCPM family, I too would extend my welcome to anyone who has studied TCPM as friend and brother. Those listed specialties serve as a guidline to determine wheather one is within this huge family and vision called the Tai Chi Praying Mantis as transmitted by Grand Master Chui Chuk Kai.

Peace to all

Mantis108

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[eightgates]

Hi ShaolinMantis, glad to meet you!

I am sorry that I didn't have a chance to reply earlier. This is the first opportunity I have had in a long time to check back at this website due to other obligations.

It is a considerable pleasure to be able to converse with so many experienced Taiji Mantis practitioners such as you and Mantis108 (and not to forget the others on the list). I have been practicing the system only for a short while compared to all of you and look forward to getting more educated from you, my seniors.

My teacher's name is Randal Choy and he studied under the late Sifu David Cheng, who just passed away last year. He has shown me pictures of one of the previous memorials he attended with Cheng Sigung. He was planning to attend this year's memorial event with Cheng Sigung's son, Brian, but from last I heard, I don't think he will be able to make it after all.

As for the person who I understood to be a student of Yuen Sifu, please e-mail me at eightgates@yahoo.com and I'll be happy to discuss the matter with you.

Peace and prosperity,
byz

[ShaolinMantis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Skrypichayko:
Shaolin Mantis,

I noticed you mention Alberta in regards to Tai Chi Praying Mantis. I'm from Edmonton, Alberta, and learned a tiny bit of TCPM from a man who claims to be CCK's student from Hong Kong and Vietnam. His name is Ng Tai Man, and he is in his late 50's.

My sifu was friend's with Ng Tai Man's sihing, a man named Peter Tsang (passed away around 1991). Mr Tsang was apparently very very good at martial arts, and a genius at chess, and other things.

If you'd like to email me, here is my address hung_ga @hotmail.com

Most people do have their emails listed on their profiles here, but due to the construction on this site, all kinds of stuff is screwed up and not listed.[/quote]

Hi Paul
I have heard of your Shifu and have been to his website. I have heard that Eng Shifu knows him. I have tried to contact him in the past but got not much in the way of a reply from his students. Thanks for the info on the eMail , I thought it was a bit strange everyone was hidding theirs. Now I see the problem is with the server.

You now study Hung Ga...did you move or did the system not work for you?

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Hi ShaolinMantis. I didn't know that Tommy Ng had a site up now. Can you give me the URL?

I still live in Edmonton, and bump into my old classmates and ex-sifus every now and then. I really love tai chi praying mantis, and I plan to take it up as soon as possible. My present sifu was fortunate to meet Chiu Sifu a few times in HK, and has the highest regard for him as well.

Please contact me by email for further details.

PS: Do any TCPM people know of a rather famous student of Chiu Sifu? His name is Gung Mei Ling. Apparently he was some psycho hardcore kung fu guy, really top notch. I heard that one day he lost his love, and then just stopped kung fu completely. Anybody have further details