One feather cannot be added.

[YouKnowWho]

What is One feather cannot be added means?

I truly don't believe it makes any sense. It's so difficult to achieve this kind of extream situation that the waight of one feather can make any difference.

[Hendrik]

I truly don't believe it makes any sense. It's so difficult to achieve this kind of extream situation that the waight of one feather can make any difference.

I am totally agree with you if we explain it as literature or philosophy.

[dirtyrat]

From A Study of T'ai Chi Push-Hands by Xiang Kai Zhang

There is also a saying, "A feather cannot be added, a fly cannot alight." That is to say, push-hands must be practiced with completely refined and acute sensitivity. Then even if a feather or something as light as a fly falls on the body, it will be felt.

But one does not allow the feather to stop or the fly to rest its feet, The feather cannot stop because it does not arrive at a flat or stable surface, For the same reason, the fly cannot stand balanced; it will not stop its fluttering wings and alight on the body. This is an extreme way of describing the light agility of T'ai Chi push-hands.

Both of the tai chi instructors I studied with encouraged me to take up dancing. When I learned the waltz, I decided to have fun with this by making my leads more and more subtle as we went along. Some gals would complain, but a couple of my partners were really good at following my leads. I really learned a lot from them.

[Hendrik]

IMHO

There is also a saying, "A feather cannot be added, a fly cannot alight." That is to say, push-hands must be practiced with completely refined and acute sensitivity. Then even if a feather or something as light as a fly falls on the body, it will be felt.

But one does not allow the feather to stop or the fly to rest its feet, The feather cannot stop because it does not arrive at a flat or stable surface, For the same reason, the fly cannot stand balanced; it will not stop its fluttering wings and alight on the body. This is an extreme way of describing the light agility of T'ai Chi push-hands.

A good sharing however anyone who follow this will not attain anything but confusion.

Both of the tai chi instructors I studied with encouraged me to take up dancing. When I learned the waltz, I decided to have fun with this by making my leads more and more subtle as we went along. Some gals would complain, but a couple of my partners were really good at following my leads. I really learned a lot from them.

Dance get one to be more loose up. however that still is not A feather cannot be added.

[YouKnowWho]

A good sharing however anyone who follow this will not attain anything but confusion.

This is the problem when discussing abstract subject like this. If you said that you are confused, people will say that your MA skill is not in high level. If you said that you understand it clearly, you may not be honest to yourself. It's a lose-lose discussion subject IMO.

[Hendrik]

This is the problem when discussing abstract subject like this. If you said that you are confused, people will say that your MA skill is not in high level. If you said that you understand it clearly, you may not be honest to yourself. It's a lose-lose discussion subject IMO.

IMHO,

It is like the Zen discussion, some presenting confusing stuffs and if you point that out, people will say that you dont know Zen and attack you that way just because they like to be the guru of high level.

To be real honest, this is what get the Chinese IMA into trouble. often people think these fuzzy and confusing stuff are superior and can get one into short cut and become a super star some days. but in fact that some days never come because that is not the way how it suppose to work.

[YouKnowWho]

this is what get the Chinese IMA into trouble.

Agree 100% there. When EMA guys are sweating in their hard work out, the IMA guys sit around table, drink tea, and talk about abstract subjects.

[dirtyrat]

Dance get one to be more loose up. however that still is not A feather cannot be added.

We have yet to hear any of your thoughts on the subject, friend.....

[Hendrik]

We have yet to hear any of your thoughts on the subject, friend.....

As in my previous post, One feather cannot be added is a method of training needs to perform in every move for my lineage, nothing abstract at all.

as it says

There are many other kinds of martial arts. Although their forms are distinct from one another, overall they are nothing more than the strong taking advantage of the weak, or merely the slow yielding to the quick. Having strength to strike those without strength, the slow of hand giving way to the quick of hand - these are all from inherent natural ability, and bear no relationship to the capability that comes from earnest study. Examine the expression "Four ounces deflect one thousand pounds." Clearly this is not accomplished by means of strength. Observe a situation in which one who is aged can skillfully fend off a throng. How can this ability be one of speed?

without the One feather cannot be added is a method of training one will never get to the above state.

[Hendrik]

Agree 100% there. When EMA guys are sweating in their hard work out, the IMA guys sit around table, drink tea, and talk about abstract subjects.

In the reality, the IMA guys has to train atleast 100% more then the EMA guys because there are more training needs to be done in additional to the EMA basics. IMHO

[dirtyrat]

As in my previous post, One feather cannot be added is a method of training needs to perform in every move for my lineage, nothing abstract at all.

without the One feather cannot be added is a method of training one will never get to the above state.

i think i know where you're going with this.

could you tell us more about this training method you're talking about?

[extrajoseph]

Excellent Sharing.

IMHO,
In my experience, This is very similar with how I would write about it years ago. I found it is loaded with lots of good information. However, none of it is that useful to make the internal art to become real. With all these information, one certainly still cant do it or cant enter into the door.

In my lineage, “one feather cannot be added” turn out to be a practicing method which needs to follow on every move.

The theory implied that one should do every movement with “one feather cannot be added” in mind, that goes without saying. It becomes real when one puts the theory to applications in practice, that is how to enter any doors.

[Hendrik]

i think i know where you're going with this.

could you tell us more about this training method you're talking about?

Certainly a training method is not a wish and also not some abstract philosophy but something one needs to drill on it again and again and again ....


IMHO, a common problem in IMA is one confuse between ideas, abstract philosophy, thoughts, reality, and skill cultivation.

For example, those who train Taiji with music, that sure will give one some feeling of ease and freedom, but that is not different then solo slow dance which is experessing one's idea. But Those are not martial art.

There are those train Taiji with all kind of philosophical saying, that sure will give one some type of mystical talk which sound deep. similar to David carredin's look and talk in the kung fu TV series. But those are a personal fantasy similar to writing a book the way one wants and feel satisfaction with it ...etc.


There are those train Taiji similar to new age religion on peace and relax, that sure will give one some type of relaxation. however, that is not Taiji because one needs to get deep into the loosing to get to one feather cannot add state of mind and body.




if one can do the one feather cannot add, then one can make the opponent think it is a wall but found out it is a piece of silk at contact, there the opponent will react to throw him/herself backward with all cost in order to keep the balance. and one uses no force at all, in fact, one dissolve one's force away at the instant to let the opponent has no pivot to nail.
This is the state of Hua Jin or dissolve the incoming jin. it is not resist, it is not withdraw, but dissolve oneself and the other party lost its balance and bounce back due to the supprise and balancing act to avoid fall.


just some thoughts.

[extrajoseph]

Just to contribute further to the discussions and not to say another method is wrong.

The training method we learned to develop the ideal of "one feather cannot be added" is to do the form and the individual practices as though they are made up of thousands and thousands of zhanzhuang postures, not unlike a series of cartoon frames joined up to make a movie.

So in the end, every part of our body is sensitized to gravity and work like a conduit for gravity, the aim is if we can feel the subtle gravitational force in our movements and be rooted and centered all that time (that is to channel it to the ground without breakage), then the chance of feeling "a feather landing on our body" without loosing the body integrity is much higher, when dealing with a sudden oncoming of your opponent's force.

Your body becomes a conduit and your opponent is not pushing you but the ground itself, like gravity, and you would know how to deal with it because you are already sensitized to the only natural force we can connect to in your constant practice.

[Scott R. Brown]

Everyone has contributed thoughtful comments!

I prefer to not consider any of these as important from a practical perspective, although I understand and enjoy the philosophical perspective most here are coming from.

Inherently balance/imbalance, sensitivity/non-sensitivity, feather/no-feather are all contrivances of the mind.

We create the idea artificially and then attempt to conform ourselves to the artificial idea. This limits our perceptions and actions and we are no longer free to respond to events spontaneously.

If one disregards all contrivances there is no feather or its effects, no sensitivity or lack thereof, no balance to lose.

If one does not "try" to succeed, one cannot lose. If one does not attach to an "I" there is no one to lose anyway.

If there is no feather, one cannot be added and the "contrived idea" of "one feather cannot be added" has no meaning or effect on our actions!

If one conforms to the contrivance of the concept that "one feather cannot be added" they tend to try to attempt to conform their behavior/actions to that "idea" and they become bound by it.

While ideas are meant to transmit information about a specific condition or action, we must not bind ourselves to any idea or concept or that idea/concept becomes a prison we cannot reach beyond!