Registered User
Originally Posted by charlyws
there are a lot of meditator who could meditate even in months or years
yup until you know what reality is. read is cheap. experienced is experienced
my point is have you ever check into what these masters do before and after the meditation and what precaution they are taking?
check and ask those who was around them to see what is happening.
Last edited by Hendrik; 04-04-2010 at 10:38 AM.
Registered User
I just hope no one get into the case as the following because one doesnt know what one is dealing with.
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...06&postcount=1
Registered User
you didn't point that in last quote.
so, have you check what these masters have done?
Registered User
What do you expect? they are my sigung and sifu.
Registered User
This is the truth why one needs a teacher and preparation ; and not messing around with energy realm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9nOD...eature=related
People might think, oh awareness.....Zen Zen. all the talk but have one prepared even to handle the first step? one doesnt take precaution one is taking a risk.
leading others to taking a risk on others expense is an act of totally irresponsible and ignorance.
There are something which one can monkey around and something one must stay away from.
Last edited by Hendrik; 04-04-2010 at 10:56 AM.
Registered User
hmm i get it, maybe you learn from your sifu called "Youtube" or "google". so you never take seriously take what have said before.
When you read on buddhism, it also said "awareness in meditation", when you learn Taoism it also said the same.
IF people study under the right guidence, if people study under the right that written in Tipitaka, Classics, on so on. That will be no misleading.
If and only if people only want to learn with his own method without going according to the right guidence, he will fail.
When you do meditation, what did you seek? superpower or what?
if you only want to seek superpower, energy or so on, JUST FORGET IT.
BUT, that will be difference story if you are learn NEIGONG. The superpower will be become a BONUS.
IF you still don't understand that, maybe you have to ask your sifu.
Registered User
Yes Henrik reality is reality; unfortunately you don't live in reality. You live with a robotic mind that is spinning dream fantasies and it has trapped you in perpetual immaturity and delusion.
Meditation for days is a useless activity and has no bearing on ones enlightenment. It does demonstrate mental control, which is nothing more than a skill earned through practice just like every other skill. It does not demonstrate insight and one may just as easily be attached to this activity and/or its results as it is with any other acquired skill.
You have confused a skill with obtaining insight/an unobstructed mind! Meditation for days is nothing more than showing off for the children and creates a hindrance to their maturity and growth as is very well demonstrated by you!
Hui-neng teaches that meditation is your every day mind unobstructed! It is nothing special or different than the mind of the unenlightened other than it is not attached to any forms.
That is for you to do. Your confusion has trapped you and I am sorry you found a master that has done nothing for you but trap you in his dream fantasy!
Here are few quotes from REAL Ch’an masters and not pretenders who confuse the children with their meaningless skills:
“Question: 'What is the demon mind?’ Answer” 'Closing the eyes [in the cross-legged sitting posture] and entering samadhi.’ Question: ‘[What if] I gather the mind into dhyana [meditation] so that it does not move?’ Answer: This is bondage samadhi. It is useless. This holds even for the four dhyanas, each of which is merely one stage of quiescence from which you will return to disturbance again. They are not to be valued. These are created dharmas, dharmas that will be destroyed again, not the ultimate Dharma. If you can understand that intrinsically there is neither quiescence nor disturbance, then you will be able to exist of yourself. The one who is not drawn into quiescence and disturbance is the man of spirit.’
“If there is one dharma to be esteemed or valued, this dharma will be the one most capable of binding and killing you, and you will fall into having mind.”
"All sutras and treatises are dharmas that produce mind. If you produce a mental focus on the path, then ingenious artifice will give rise to knowledge and a complement of events. If mind is not produced, what need is there for cross-legged sitting dhyana? If ingenious artifice does not arise, why toil over right mindfulness? If you do not raise the thought of enlightenment and do not seek insight and understanding, then you will exhaust both phenomena and principle."
- Master Yuan, contemporary of Hui-k'o and first generation Ch'an Master.
From Hui-k'o:
"When the image in mirror crosses over sentient beings, Buddhas [Masters] will cross over sentient beings!"
From Record I of the Tun-huang texts, the oldest extant Ch’an teachings:
“He who ,without relying on the teaching of a master, sees Dharma from events is called one of sharp abilities. He who understands from the spoken teachings of a master is called one of dull abilities.”
“When the person of sharp abilities hears of the path, he does not produce the mind of the common man. He does not even produce the mind of the worthy or sage. Common and sage are both excised. This is the hearing of the path of the man of sharp abilities. He cares not for material or sensual things, even to the point of not caring for a Buddha’s enlightenment. If you care for a Buddha’s enlightenment, then you will reject disturbance and seize quietude, reject stupidity and seize wisdom, reject the conditioned and seize the unconditioned You will not be able to cut off duality and be unimpeded. This is a man of dull abilities.”
“The spontaneously peaceful mind does not realize the understanding of Mahayana or the Hinayana, does not produce the thought of enlightenment, even to the point of not wishing for the omniscience of a Buddha, does not honor the person who is accomplished in samadhi, does not disdain the person who is attached and craving, even to the point of not wishing for Buddha wisdom.”
I hope you read these carefully and reflect on what they mean. I have little hope you will understand any of it, but I will not give up on you my friend!
Registered User
When you read on buddhism, it also said "awareness in meditation", when you learn Taoism it also said the same.
That is because you read and
know not the four type of Chan state and nine levels of Samadhi and its cultivation.
you are asking a wrong question.When you do meditation, what did you seek? superpower or what?
Registered User
good luck in everyone journey.
Registered User
Mahàsatipaññhàna Sutta
Thus have I heard. The Bhagavà was at one time residing at the market-town called Kammàsadhamma in the Kuru country. There the Bhagavà addressed the bhikkhus say- ing "O, Bhikkhus", and they replied to him, "Bhadante,".
Then the Bhagavà said:
Bhikkhus, this is the one and the only way6 for the puri- fication (of the minds) of beings, for overcoming sorrow and lamentation, for the cessation of physical and mental pain, for attainment of the Noble Paths. and for the realiz- ation of Nibbàna. That (only way) is the four satipaññhànas.
What are these four? Here (in this teaching), bhikkhus, a bhikkhu (i.e. a disciple) dwells perceiving again and again the body (kàya) as just the body (not mine, not I, not self, but just a phenomenon) with diligence, clear understand- ing, and mindfulness, thus keeping away covetousness and mental pain in the world; he dwells perceiving again and again feelings (vedanà) as just feelings (not mine, not I, not self but just as phenomena) with diligence, clear under- standing, and mindfulness, thus keeping away covetous- ness and mental pain in the world; he dwells perceiving again and again the mind (citta) as just the mind (not mine, not I, not self but just a phenomenon) with diligence, clear understanding, and mindfulness, thus keeping away covet- ousness and mental pain in the world; he dwells perceiving again and again dhammas as just dhammas (not mine, not I, not self but just as phenomena) with diligence, clear understanding, and mindfulness, thus keeping away covetousness and mental pain in the world.
this only the beginning. Hope this clear your mind
Registered User
And gudluck too Hendrik on your journey
Registered User
(Section on In and Out breathing)
And how, bhikkhus, does a bhikkhu dwell perceiving again and again the body as just the body? Here (in this teaching), bhikkhus, a bhikkhu having gone to the forest, or to the foot of a tree, or to an empty, solitary place; sits down cross-legged, keeping his body erect, and directs his mindfulness (towards the object of mindfulness). Then only with keen mindfulness he breathes in and only with keen mindfulness he breathes out. Breathing in a long breath, he knows, "I breathe in a long breath"; breathing out a long breath, he knows, "I breathe out a long breath"; breathing in a short breath, he knows, "I breathe in a short breath"; breathing out a short breath, he knows, "I breathe out a short breath", "Aware of the whole breath body, I shall breathe in", thus he trains himself; "Aware of the whole breath body, I shall breathe out", thus he trains himself. "Calming the process of breathing, I shall breathe in",thus he trains himself; "Calming the process of breathing, I shall breathe out", thus he trains himself.
Just as, bhikkhus, a skilful turner or a turner's apprentice pulling a long pull (on the string turning the lathe), knows,
"I am pulling a long pull"; pulling a short pull, knows, "I am
pulling a short pull", just so, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu breathing in a long breath, knows, "I breathe in a long breath"; breathing out a long breath, knows, "I breathe out a long breath"; breathing in a short breath, knows, "I breathe in a short breath"; breathing out a short breath, knows, "I breathe out a short breath". "Aware of the whole breath body, I shall breathe in," thus he trains himself; "Aware of the whole breath body, I shall breathe out", thus he trains himself. "Calming the process of breathing, I shall breathe in", thus he trains himself; "Calming the process of breathing, I shall breathe out", thus he trains himself.
Thus he dwells perceiving again and again the body as just the body (not mine, not I, not self, but just a phenomenon) in himself; or he dwells perceiving again and again the body as just the body in others;or he dwells perceiving again and again the body as just the body in both himself and in others. He dwells perceiving again and again the cause and the actual appearing of the body; or he dwells perceiving again and again the cause and the actual dissolution of the body; or he dwells perceiving again and again both the actual appearing and dissolution of the body with their causes.To summarize, he is firmly mindful of the fact that only the body exists (not a soul, a self or I). That mindfulness is just for gaining insight (vipassanà) and mindfulness progressively. Being detached from craving and wrong views he dwells without clinging to anything in the world. Thus, bhikkhus, this is a way in which a bhikkhu dwells perceiving again and again the body as just the body.
This another way on seeking awareness based on Buddhism Teaching
Resigned
standing is profoundly simple; while one can engage in all sorts of esoteric arguments about it, the plain and simple fact is that standing is natural - the problem arises when someone codifies it and turns it into something special with all sort of rules, caveats and precautions; standing is one way of "allowing" our "true" nature to manifest - however, why do it, since, every time we do anything, we are "allowing" out "true" nature to manifest? what we are doing is creating a semi-artifact - we are decreasing the degree of contextual interference, meaning that we are limiting the number of variables in our immediate environment, in order that we may have a better chance of observing with the "conscious" mind the way in which our "true" nature manifest; so we stand; and when we stand, we notice things: we notice that we have to constantly readjust our body - we feel tight in one place, so we "let that go"; then we feel we are holding somewhere else, so we release there; we feel aligned, then we feel a pull towards a "better' alignment, so we go there; etc.
we notice our breath as well - we notice how we hold, restrict, enhance the breathe; we notice how the breath and the body coincide - for indeed, the breath IS the body, there is no part that does not participate (Chaung Tzu wrote, "the men of old breathed straight down to their heels...");
when we stand, we allow our spontaneous "healing" process the opportunity to manifest; in physiological terms, it is allowing the organism to move towards homeostasis without having to deal with all sorts of extra demands; one big piece is that the parasympathetic nervous system is able to tonify more so than it typically might: it gives it the chance to counter the effects of the sympathetic "fight / flight" response; so the organism can deal with things like heart rate, respiratory rate, blood pressure, residual lung volume, local and systemic inflammation, digestion /constipation, lymphatic / venous return, cellular regeneration, etc.; all these processes are described in various ways by TCM - some in and of themselves, some as part of TCM "patterns" that rely on the metaphor of "qi" to talk about biological processes that the "ancient" Chinese could not observe directly, but noticed on the marco level or in aggregate form, and were able to derive predictive value from that pattern assessment;
while it can be a help to have a teacher in this, which it was for me, it is not essential - I mean, somebody had to be the first person to figure this all out without benefit of a teacher, right? so if they could do it, so can anyone; of course, if one wants to learn a specific method, then one should learn from the teacher of that method - but ultimately, it's not necessary; and even with a teacher, the true learning comes from the standing itself - the teacher can be of use to "verify" what one feels, but even that's not essential - we have within each of us the natural capacity to fully experience our own "self-nature" - why on earth would we necessarily NEED to have that revealed, explained, shown, etc. to us by someone else? and of course, ultimately, they can't - meaning that since no one can show you your true self (whatever that particular artifact may be - but bear with me while I use this concept for the sake of convenience);
something definitely "happens" when I stand - I know what I feel, and I understand where that experience fits into the overall pattern of my life;
Registered User
What I learn when I stand is that my feet hurt!
Resigned
unless you have teacher to verify that for you, it is all speculationWhat I learn when I stand is that my feet hurt!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote