Ng chan wing chun

[andysken]

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDI0NDMyNzk2.html

The glance of the teaching in Pik-Wah

[andysken]

Andy,

IMHO,
You have big philosophy. But Face it. Those are just someone's philosophy, not even wing Chun teaching. That is no different then a movie script . The clip you post can't stand a few second versus train proffesional east or west.

It is better for you to face reality early then cover yourself with dream.

Ofcorse just my opinion. And I can be wrong.

I've faced it 3 years ago. I thought as the same. But when I restarted Wing Chun taught by Lance Pun, I found out what is true. I totally understand how you feel now. But I'll say, the history we know, some times blind us. Because the history was made by people who want you to believe something like Chinese ghrase "成王败寇“ which includes the idea: the winning one can deal every thing.
Thank you for your advice, and I do hope you can visit us once to see whether you are right or wrong. Have a nice day

[Badnews]

Sure, the Wing Chun fighting is not that beautiful as many people thought. The problem is: with the films, people can't tell what is the real fighting anymore. People nowadays think the fighting should be the Hollywood style: with very perfect shape, with very impressive scene. But they forget, fighting is for killing at beginning. Watch carefully, in the video, the oppnents can hardly attack the fighter but the fighter always open the oppents' arms easily. Because this fighting is not for killing, we didn't continue our attack.
I know it's a little difficult to understand, but in fighting, all you have to do is to keep the oppnent's attacks away and break the defense to attack back. Posing, Shape, Scene? Who cares?

And of course, if you want to find whether you are right or wrong, you can find us. I've put the address in my signature.

Oh I'm pretty sure most of us on here KNOW wing chun isn't pretty, but you can post rationalize a mediocre chi sao slap battle all you want....but what you showed DEFINITELY wasn't fighting, it was simply another ego battle showing 10/20 seconds of "I won cause I hit you like this, but i didn't use full power 'cause if i did you'd be dead"...nobody WON in this mate....except in your own mind maybe...

[wingchunIan]

a couple of clips of very poor chi sao and a clip of what can best be described as a slap fest. The only thing deadly about any of the skills on show is the threat of the death of a spectator through laughing too much.

[andysken]

Oh I'm pretty sure most of us on here KNOW wing chun isn't pretty, but you can post rationalize a mediocre chi sao slap battle all you want....but what you showed DEFINITELY wasn't fighting, it was simply another ego battle showing 10/20 seconds of "I won cause I hit you like this, but i didn't use full power 'cause if i did you'd be dead"...nobody WON in this mate....except in your own mind maybe...

If you think this is not Wing Chun, you can come and have a try.

[andysken]

a couple of clips of very poor chi sao and a clip of what can best be described as a slap fest. The only thing deadly about any of the skills on show is the threat of the death of a spectator through laughing too much.

Cause Unfortunately, Chi-sao was not useful in the real fight. You can't ask the oppnents to learn Chi-sao before your fight, right? The idea of Chi-sao is to let you learn how to control your hands to do two or more different things at the same time.

Of course, you can laugh, but if you one day see the real Wing Chun, don't forget I have mentioned once, though you did LOL to it.

[wingchunIan]

Cause Unfortunately, Chi-sao was not useful in the real fight. You can't ask the oppnents to learn Chi-sao before your fight, right? The idea of Chi-sao is to let you learn how to control your hands to do two or more different things at the same time.

Chi sao is chi sao, fighting is fighting they aren't the same thing and don't mix. What was presented in the clips wasn't a good example of either, in fact it was IMHO very far from it.

Of course, you can laugh, but if you one day see the real Wing Chun, don't forget I have mentioned once, though you did LOL to it

Really.... If that's what you class as the "real" Wing Chun I'll stick to training in the fake version. You can bury your head in the sand all you want, its your right, but rather than insist that everyone else is wrong and that they should come to you to be enlightened why don't you go and test things for yourself

[anerlich]

if you want to find whether you are right or wrong, you can find us.

If you think this is not Wing Chun, you can come and have a try.

The burden of proof is on you, buddy, not us.

[LFJ]

You can bury your head in the sand all you want, its your right, but rather than insist that everyone else is wrong and that they should come to you to be enlightened why don't you go and test things for yourself

People like this prefer to stick to their own fantasies, than to go out and, heaven forbid, find out their method doesn't work!

They'll boldly invite people in, because most likely no one is going to travel that far for something they think isn't worth a second look on the computer.

Which reminds me, I don't know why am back on this thread. Dude never showed in Shanghai when he was "coming for business".

[andysken]

You didn't give me the details on address, name, number, how can I find you?

People like this prefer to stick to their own fantasies, than to go out and, heaven forbid, find out their method doesn't work!

They'll boldly invite people in, because most likely no one is going to travel that far for something they think isn't worth a second look on the computer.

Which reminds me, I don't know why am back on this thread. Dude never showed in Shanghai when he was "coming for business".

[Vajramusti]

You didn't give me the details on address, name, number, how can I find you?

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Someone got Shangaied!

[GlennR]

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Someone got Shangaied!

Bwahahahaah!

[andysken]

Details on Wing Chun
Wrote by Sifu Pun（Lance Pun）
Translated by Andy(Ah Yuan)
Copy Right: Pik-Wah Wing Chun


Au XVIIe siècle, la Chine est occupée par les Mandchous, sous le règne de la dynastie Qing.
Les généraux de l’armée du précédent empereur, de la dynastie des Ming, créent une milice secrète contre l’occupation, une formation sous le nom de Shaolins — contrairement à ce qui est
communément admis, ce groupe n’a pas de lien avec le temple Shaolin, si ce n’est l’appellation. Cette milice était active dans la région de Fujian et Guangdong.
La nonne Wu Mai est un membre des Shaolins. Durant ses voyages, elle rencontre Yim Wing Chun, une jeune fille qui travaille et vend du tofu (pâte fermentée à base de soja). Ce travail a développé une force particulière dans ses bras. C’est
pour cette caractéristique que Wu Mai décide d’enseigner les arts martiaux à Yim Wing Chun, pour finalement la désigner comme la «gardienne» de la milice : elle sera en charge de tuer les traîtres.
Ces faits historiques expliquent pourquoi le wing chun rompt avec la tradition des autres arts martiaux chinois ; contrairement aux usages, le wing chun ne se transmet pas de maître à élèves — nous employons le terme «maître» pour désigner «celui qui enseigne». Il s’agit en réalité d’une transmission de «gardien» à «élu». Les cérémonies officielles
n’existent pas — elles sont même interdite dans le wing chun. Il n’y a qu’une, voire deux personnes «élues» (désignées) par génération, et ceci est toujours valable aujourd’hui.
Cette personne, désignée avec son accord, se doit de comprendre parfaitement le wing chun, et avoir les qualités physiques et morales pour assumer sa fonction de gardien.
Pour trouver cette personne, le wing chun a du s’ouvrir au grand public. Les techniques sont enseignées partiellement, pour repérer un potentiel. Une fois la bonne personne trouvée, la transmission intégrale peut s’effectuer.
Filiation


Yip Man commence l’apprentissage du wing chun dans son enfance avec Chan Wah Shun. Il rencontre Leung Pik par la suite, qui lui transmet les techniques et le désigne comme le successeur.
1950. Le changement politique en Chine conduit Yip Man à se réfugier à Hong-Kong. Pour subvenir à ses besoins, il donne des cours de wing chun au grand public, mais à la manière de Chan Wah Shun. Il garde les véritables techniques de Leung Pik secrètes. C’est pourquoi l’enseignement du wing chun dans le monde de nos jours est de fait celui de Chan Wah Shun.

Principes généraux de la technique

Le wing chun a été créé pour tuer.
Contrairement aux autres styles d’arts martiaux, dont les mouvements résultent de l’expérience (corps contre lois de la physique), les mouvements du wing chun sont déterminés par un angle mathématique, 45 degrés ; ce 45° sur lequel repose l’équilibre du corps humain. La marge d’erreur de chaque mouvement se doit d’être inférieure à 1 cm. On peut utiliser les deux mains et une jambe en même temps, mais chaque partie du corps bouge indépendamment et déploie une force propre.

Les 3 formes correspondent à 3 niveaux de fonctionnement.
La 1ère forme
Elle constitue la fondation pour l’équilibre du corps :
• maîtriser parfaitement le positionnement pour pouvoir, par la
• suite bouger, parfaitement durant le combat
• gérer la force
• apprendre à visionner
• comprendre la décomposition de l’angle 45°
Il faut que le corps, debout et stable, intègre parfaitement la bonne position. Le cerveau doit pouvoir contrôler chaque partie du corps librement.
Il faut maîtriser parfaitement la 1ère forme pour pouvoir passer à la 2e forme.
La 2e forme
La force d’un homme se déploie normalement dans un angle de 45° ; le wing chun permet un angle de 90° :
• apprendre à trouver et retrouver le bon angle d’attaque sur 360°
• apprendre à se déplacer suivant le bon angle d’attaque
• coordonner ses bras avec le corps durant le changement d’angle
• apprendre à utiliser les deux bras et une jambe en même temps mais indépendamment pendant l’attaque
La 3e forme
Une fois les deux premières formes assimilées, le fonctionnement général du style est compris. Mais durant les combats, les deux créatrices du style ont noté une ouverture, un «point mort». La 3e forme sert à combler cette ouverture.
La 3e forme enseigne également la précision des points d’acuponcture pour attaquer. Elle affine les déplacements, notamment lors de combats très rapprochés, ou serrés.
Le mannequin
Il simule un combat avec une personne réelle. Le mannequin permet la mise en pratique des déplacements enseignés dans les 3 formes.
Le bâton
Il a pour origine les combats à la lance. Le bâton possède un poids certain car il a pour fonction spécifique de contrer les attaques à la lance.
Les deux couteaux
Ils constituent des prolongements de la main. Ils étaient parfois enduits de poison. La technique d’utilisation des couteaux comprend la composition du poison, c’est pourquoi elle n’est pas enseignée. Les couteaux produits et les techniques enseignées dans le monde de nos jours sont donc faux

Note personnelle
C’est pour préserver l’héritage culturel et la tradition que je révèle ces informations aujourd’hui. Je veux respecter la création originale et exceptionnelle des créatrices du wing chun, et la transmettre ainsi avec authenticité

[andysken]

Wrote by Sifu Pun（Lance Pun）
Translated by Andy(Ah Yuan)
Copy Right: Pik-Wah Wing Chun

I introduced the philosophy behind Wing Chun in French above.
In fact, after Yip-Man mastered Wing Chun, Wing Chun had done her historical part in the Chinese history( to take over the Qing Dynasty. But for the swear, Yip-Man still taught my maser). Then the true Wing Chun left her motherland and never know where would be the end. Today, Wing Chun should be a symbol of Chinese culture to go to the future. Let the intelligence left on her motherland, cause she is belong to the China people
In the cold weapon times, the art of fighting in China(which called “Kung-Fu” nowadays) was very mystery. The builders followed their own experience to connect the movement for fighting. Including hiding the truth behind it so that the others couldn’t figure it out. In the history, the Kung-Fu was like the ghost. Nearly no one analyzed it logically.
But Wing Chun is totally different. First, Wing Chun was for taking over the Qing Dynasty. For chasing the greatest power. Besides, at that time a woman wanted to rebel, she must think for a very long time then made this big decision (The training is also too tough that even men can’t finish it) and she knew the consequence.
On the skill, Wing Chun is strictly following the geometry. On this point, Wing Chun breaks the traditional way of Kung Fu which was following the experience. Gain the greatest power in the natural way. Based on this level, if the trainer can master how to calm down and think clearly and fast no matter what happens, then he/she will be a great “weapon” with the strongest system( As a system, Wing Chun must be logical, standardized . And can’t be changed by the sayings).
The thought of Wing Chun is not about moral but to kill the opponents. The one who was trained should not believe in any religion and not believe the saying “ the weak beat the strong”. The one should through the training become the strongest and no one can beat. The one must have a tough mind, use the skills to kill the opponents. So Wing Chun is different from the traditional Kung Fu which are without the specific conception. Wing Chun askes the trainer for the exact points, angles, power and emphasizes the logical thought. So that in Wing Chun there are only true or fake, no so called” skills are different from every master” and never relax like dancing.
With the training being totally different from the traditional Kung Fu, Wing Chun is mistaken by nowadays people or should I say this generation. Especially after Yip-Man taught for living with hiding the truth and adding the wrong things into. People think that Wing Chun also can be mastered by experience. So there are too many people use Wing Chun to cheat for money though they don’t understand it any of it.
Kung Fu in China these days are not the real. What do I mean here are the way of training and the real skills. Ancient Chinese Kung Fu training is totally different from the western way. The Ancient wouldn’t use the sandbags but the wood and stones. But nowadays the soft sandbag became the essential. And the so called” Free-boxing” made by the government in China became the greatest Kung Fu. But it is a very freak. Just like the Shao-Lin temple dancing, the pathetic “Kung Fu”
Why is Wing Chun so popular now? Because so many “Masters” made it mystery by the “simple but difficult” theories even they can’t complete or should I say, nobody can do them. Like the “Centre line theory”. The real center line is set for the boundary. Think about what is called “boundary”?! Then why do you guys put your arms on the center line? Can you really gain power that way? And after the film “Yip-Man”, many people feel only stand in the xiao-nian-tou way and put their hands like begging a meal will show they mastered Wing Chun. Ask yourself, can you fight like that in the real fighting? Or can you even protect yourself in that way?

[Graham H]

Why is Wing Chun so popular now? Because so many “Masters” made it mystery by the “simple but difficult” theories even they can’t complete or should I say, nobody can do them. Like the “Centre line theory”. The real center line is set for the boundary. Think about what is called “boundary”?! Then why do you guys put your arms on the center line? Can you really gain power that way? And after the film “Yip-Man”, many people feel only stand in the xiao-nian-tou way and put their hands like begging a meal will show they mastered Wing Chun. Ask yourself, can you fight like that in the real fighting? Or can you even protect yourself in that way?

I'm not really into all the historical rubbish but that last part makes good sense.

The film series Yip Man (although a good watch) has not done Wing Chun any favours IMO. I knew that would happen when I saw who the fight choreographers were.

The center line theory is commonly misunderstood and misinterpreted as are most of the concepts in the system. Asking the question as to why most WC practitioners hold their arms on the center is a good one.