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Thread: Ng chan wing chun

  1. #376
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    This concludes the Siu Nim Tau article, next article is Chum Kiu (though there is a paragraph about power and how it is trained in SNT)

    ============================================

    小諗頭作為入門訓練動作,它標准了手法動作的幾何結構,手掌,拳,手指,前臂,后臂的各部獨立又關連的運作 。而且重要地引導發力[千萬不要做什麼肘底力,如果這樣,力就死了,一定很多人反對。信不信由你,詠春拳沒有肘底力]。詠春拳有4種力,1柔力,2硬力,3柔chi力,4硬chi力。交替使用。
    Siu Nim Tau serves as the induction training of movement, it sets the standard for the hand technique movement geometry and structure. Palm, fist, finger, forearm, upper arm, each independent and linked operation. Moreover it shows us how to send power [do not make any 'power beneath elbow', if you do this, the power dies. There will certainly be many people who disagree. Whether you believe is up to you, Wing Chun Kuen does not have the beneath elbow power]. Wing Chun Kuen has 4 powers,

    1. soft power,
    2. hard power,
    3. soft sticking power,
    4. hard sticking power.

    Use alternately.

    何謂柔力[不是軟,是柔鬆]所謂內家拳有聽勁,如太極[其實它太小兒科]何為聽勁?其實就是身體或手,當要做出一個動作時,肌肉先有反應,如果平時練習動作慢,大腦就感覺敏感,特 別是肌肉在放鬆狀態下,所以他們推手。而詠春的柔,就要做到不讓你聽,即突然出現[短打]突然消失[放鬆]。並突然改變角度[轉馬]纏絲勁要矩離要推,利用身體前后變動改變距離,所以,詠春可以用柔chi力,追著它反纏而打。

    硬力也是如此。
    The soft power [isn't soft, it is supple and relaxed] is the so-called Internal family (neijia) listening ging (teng ging), like Taiji [actually it's too infantile]. What is listening ging? It is actually when the body or the hand must make a movement, the muscle has to respond first. If the movement is usually practised slowly, the cerebrum becomes more sensitive, especially when the muscle is in a relaxed condition, therefore they 'push hands'. But Wing Chun's soft (power), must achieve 'not let you listen', namely it must be suddenly present [short hit], then suddenly vanish [relaxation]. Also sudden changes to the angle [turning horse (juen ma)]. Silk reeling power requires a certain distance to push, utilising the changes in movement between the front and rear of the body to change the distance, therefore, Wing Chun may use the soft sticking power, to pursue, disentangle and hit.

    The hard power is also like this.
    Last edited by CFT; 08-08-2011 at 03:06 PM.

  2. #377
    Thanks again Chee. i am really appreciative of your work.
    Makes "listening" in the midst of noise- a pleasure.

    joy chaudhuri

  3. #378
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    ^^ No problem. I could use the language practice. Just updated the previous post to conclude the SNT article.

  4. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    ^^ No problem. I could use the language practice. Just updated the previous post to conclude the SNT article.
    ---------------------------------
    Great Chee-- with translation, knowing the language is not always enough-one must have some understanding of the subject-you do well on both counts.

    joy

  5. #380
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    ng chan

    hi all to moshie

    i read with interest about the great ng chan , master chow tse chuen told stephen tk chaan he started learning , bart jjarm dao from gm yip man later , ng chan and wong chok joined him in training,if master chow says he is good that is good enough for me, also master chows chum kill has front kick emphais as well regards russell sherry
    russellsherry

  6. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    ...... Moreover it shows us how to send power [do not make any 'power beneath elbow', if you do this, the power dies. There will certainly be many people who disagree. Whether you believe is up to you, Wing Chun Kuen does not have the beneath elbow power].
    Anyone, including MOSHE, have any ideas on what he's trying to say here?

  7. #382
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    WC1277, you might have heard it as "jaang dai lik" in Cantonese. The article uses the term "zhou di li" which is the Mandarin term.

    I read it as: Wing Chun's "elbow power" is not the same as Taiji's zhou di chui (punch beneath elbow).

  8. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by WC1277 View Post
    Anyone, including MOSHE, have any ideas on what he's trying to say here?

    some thoughts pertaining to SLT relevance...

    Dont lift or hinge the elbow up, or you will hinge at the shoulder..dont use 'power' [force] in lifting ones own elbow....or you later lose the body weight/momentum behind punching technique...

    Keep the elbow from lifting up...its a critical issue in developing unity of force with striking and da sao jik siu sao concepts..
    Last edited by k gledhill; 08-08-2011 at 04:23 PM.

  9. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    WC1277, you might have heard it as "jaang dai lik" in Cantonese. The article uses the term "zhou di li" which is the Mandarin term.

    I read it as: Wing Chun's "elbow power" is not the same as Taiji's zhou di chui (punch beneath elbow).
    Gotcha, that makes more sense, Thanks Chee

  10. #385
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    ng chan

    hi moshie ihave heard many great things about ng chan , master chow tse cheurn is one of yips great students thats what i am saying , in case someone gets misunderstood russ
    russellsherry

  11. #386
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    This is the start of the article on Chum Kiu, but he begins by adding a point about SNT.

    =======================

    黐手 撳手 使人迷惑的詠春拳-尋橋篇

    補充一下小諗頭關於力的問題。

    小諗頭練的也是力,力是拳術首要,練的是力能自由按需要發揮。所謂不用力,是誤解。說的是不要 僵硬死之力[特別緊張的人的慣常現象]。我們要求小諗頭很多針對性的力量練習,但絕對不打沙包。[打沙包是牛一樣身形的人,訓練用身體的力來撞人用的,它幫助不了打擊力。練習詠春拳,隻需輕輕 打打,讓拳頭 與手腕有個習慣而不會受傷而己,之后,要遠離沙包]。
    Sticking hand, pressing hand. The enchanting Wing Chun Kuen - Seeking the bridge

    Just a supplementary on Siu Nim Tau, a question about power.

    Siu Nim Tau also trains power, power is a fist art's most important requirement. What is practised is power that can be freely applied and expressed. So-called 'do not use strength', is a misunderstanding. What it means is not to use stiff, dead strength [a phenomenon regularly seen in especially tense people]. We require from Siu Nim Tau power practices that are targeted, but definitely does not mean hiting the sandbag. [hitting the sandbag is for a bullish person to train the body strength to crash into someone, it cannot help with hitting power. Practicing Wing Chun Kuen, only needs hitting gently, which lets the fist and the wrist develop a habit, but will not cause injury to oneself. Afterwards, one must distance oneself from the sandbag].

  12. #387
    Thanks Chee- it is good to have the key points of Ng Chan's POV. both for history and insight. That generation is fast fading away.

    joy

  13. #388
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    The enchanting Wing Chun Kuen - Seeking bridge

    尋橋為詠春拳系統的第二套拳,由三個不同部分組成。1,雙標手轉馬成攔手等到側身連環正掌再到轉馬攔手到綁 手后完成。2,攔手轉馬綁手起腳走馬抽拳來回結束。[這裡,梁陳尋橋分別在於腳法,梁壁的45渡綁手起腳一直打來回,並且是兩腳法聯發,陳華順的沒 有]3,低綁手側身90度走馬起腳來回到轉身左右打45度腳右左撳手轉回正身連環直拳到收拳為完。
    Chum Kiu is the Wing Chun Kuen system's second fist form, and is composed of three different parts.

    1st, double biu sau turning horse (juen ma) to lan sau, etc. to side body continuous facing palms (jing jeung), then again to turning horse lan sau, to bong sau (tying up hand) completes this section.

    2nd, lan sau, turning horse, bong sau, rising kick, running horse, back and forth to finish. [here the difference between Leung and Chan's Chum Kiu lies in the footwork. Leung Bik has 45-degree bong sau, rising kick back and forth, and has 2 linked leg/footwork methods, Chan Wah Shun does not have this]

    3rd, low bong sau, side body 90-degrees to running horse, rising kick back and forth, to turning body left right 45 degree kick, left right pressing hand (gum sau), return to frontal facing, continuous straight punch to closing.

  14. #389
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    Translations

    It is great that Chee is spending his time on translating these articles and I'm looking forward to reading more about the plum blossom ideas to be honest.

    Everything else so far has been pretty standard Ip Man style imho perhaps highlighting minimum differences between Ip Mans earlier HK teachings and his later western curriculum.

    Still, if the SLT/Chum Kiu are divided into 3 sections I see this as part of Ip Mans 'modern' era.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  15. #390
    I really appreciate Chee's work and I trust his translation.
    Spencer- I don't know what you exactly mean by modern early, later Ip man etc.

    Ng Chan as translated is very instructive and not "standard"(your phrase).

    I withold my comments because I am really interested in understanding his POV.

    Folks too often are too eager to give quick responses from their own POVs.

    joy chaudhuri

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