Ng chan wing chun

[MOSHE]

moshe, how do you explain this 5 lines (w)?


Jox,

each punch should start from the center line to the center line

its not a question of line but of angle ,

slt is built like the shape of the letter "w"

[MOSHE]

I am still not sure, if I understood this "W" correctly.
I played a little with a diagram (1,2 & 3 gate, axis and five lines).

Which concept of "W" is then correct (white, black, grey or red)?
Relation to the angle?


Jox,

nothing better than practising ,come to visit

[rogerlee36]

Very interesting drawing, my old teacher used to refer to same thing simple as shoulder line, "sunk elbow position" and center

[MOSHE]

now ,you got a taste of it , you can answer him !

[Vajramusti]

now ,you got a taste of it , you can answer him !

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Well, Jox?

[duende]

Don't hold your breath Joy. Still waiting for Jox to answer a question on his other thread.

Fwiw, how can some one who's only met with Moshie once really answer anyway.

[Vajramusti]

Don't hold your breath Joy. Still waiting for Jox to answer a question on his other thread.

Fwiw, how can some one who's only met with Moshie once really answer anyway.

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I just was curious as to what he would say. I assumed nothing.

[MOSHE]

Short summary of the text above

Original wing chun
Moshe (M) has been writing about Ng Chan wing chun, as authentic one.
It is true.

M did not explain the system
He presented the text written by si-fu Pun, which was translated by forum member (I think it is Chee).

Everyone interested to read it, it is here:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/jox-o...09980289055137
There is no other technical explanations in English language.

M did not authenticate his claims with clips
He did the clip, but was deleted soon after (except some dummy and punch).
There is no other instructional clips made by M.

Criticism about not showing original
M says, late master Ng Chan did not show the real thing in the clips.

What I experienced in si fu Pun school, forms are performed differently.
Chi sao is done with different frequency and power.

Answer (HK) relating differences.
Late master Ng Chan wing chun changed with his age.

Author of the text speculate, that masters sometimes did the stuff differently in front of the cam, as they really did. But he says, we can not know for sure...

Not sure if M met in person
There is a picture on the thread, M with late master Ng Chan and si-fu Pun.
But I think, he hasn´t met with other performers, relating to Ng Chan wing chun.
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Jox, [/QUOTE]

I DID MET MOST OF THE CLOSE STUDENTS OF NG CHAN WHEN I WENT TO HONG KONG, BEFORE HE RETIRED BUT THIS IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE QUALITY OF THEIR PERSONAL PRACTISE AND THEIR APTITUDE TO UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM.

JOX , I THINK THAT AFTER OUR TRAINING ,SOME PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM ARE JUST EXPECTING FROM YOU TO SAY
IF YOU DID SEE SOMETHING SINGULAR IN MY WAY TO PRACTISE
IF MY WAY TO PRACTISE IS IN ACCORDANCE TO WHAT IM WRITING
IF ITS WORKING WELL

REGARDS

[YouKnowWho]

I hate this kind of article. It points out problem without giving solution. If one is not willing to share, he should not write an article about it.

I'll try to translate the main points here. I add the (...) as my personal opinion.
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- The WC power generation doesnot come from the ground but come from the muscle strinking and expanding.

- To generate power from the ground requires 6 harmony which is good for single Fajin. Your whole body is working together as one purpose only. The problem is it can only be used for "single point striking (like rifle)".

- WC wants to be more than single point striking (like machine gun). The problem is since your body is not unified, your power generation will be weak.

- Since WC utilizes muscle power. It's important to train muscle. But you should not train like body builder (with muscle group isolation and constant speed). You should develop your muscle with explosive power (with muscle coordination and bell curve speed).

- When you punch, you will require one muscle to expand while the other muscle to shrink. If both muscle can work together, you will generate more power. If both muscle don't work together or work against each other, you will generate less power (this is the problem for muscle group isolation).

- Many people train their WC forms by using Taiji principle. This is why some people want to call WC as IMA. Others train their WC forms by using Hong Chuan principle. This is why we have seen so many WC systems today.

- My teacher demonstrated the WC power on me. I was amazing for it's killing power. He told me that it should not be taught to just anybody.

- My teacher wants the true WC power generation method to stay in China.

[YouKnowWho]

Any idea what Hong Chuan principle is?

J,

I'm not a Hong Chuan guy. It's a southern TCMA system. The tiger and crane form is famous in that system.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&s...r:10,s:0,i:107

[PalmStriker]

iv no much time right now to answer you in detail
im not trying to polemic
so please feel relax
and again sorry for my english ,which one give a special tone to my writing

i trained 20 years with ki ping pun and met as well ng chan several time and pratised with him

i have benchmarks in order to evaluate wing chun that perhaps you dont have
i have seen practising others like w c ...
my purpose is not to try to demolish other wing chun ,every one has to be happy with what he receive

but dont forget that all these masters have created commercial system that is opposite to the uniqueness of wing chun .which one is a style ,hiden behind the door

so what i was proposing ,is to give you rules or concepts that should help to evoluate your own wing chun
if you read me again ,and analyse it with calm ,you will be in a better situation to question yourself

i cannot teach wing chun through the forum ,describing each technic of ng chan and even worst ,to compare it to others.
let us try to be at a higher level, and try to exchange concept
example :
i was saying that the movements should provide leverage ,to provide a feminine force,and to allow you to be close if front of your opponent
to allow as well a continuous flow of movements without break that should cause to go to develop phycical force (masculine force), to allow as to drive the opponent arms
if your movements respect this ,thats good .if not try to correct it

regards

Thanks for letting us know of the secreted concepts/practices of your teachers, Moshe. Makes perfect sense.

[PalmStriker]

I'm sometimes quite amazed at how compact the Chinese text is when I compare it to the English translation. Takes me about 1/2 hour to read, translate, check and type the translation for one Chinese paragraph.
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The wooden dummy trains the accurate use of power, great penetrating attack power, strong bridge hands, body horse coordination, hands and feet coordination, left right pressing attack. The power reflecting, person and dummy fighting. Some people are always inch punching, tried sending power (faat lik) and hitting the dummy from a few centimeters distance?

On the wooden dummy, (you) will practice what is soft power, hard power, soft sticking power, hard sticking power. Internal martial arts (neijia) talk of listening ging. The sensitivity level to ging after the wooden dummy, means that listening to ging gives a much quicker response than the Internal arts.

Hitting the dummy the movements cannot be quick, relax the body, do not use the bodily strength, do not sway the body, where there is contact use power there, maintain normal breathing, do not restrict the amount of oxygen reaching the cerebrum due to sudden physical activity. We especially do not want any dantien qi, qigong. Wing Chun Kuen especially does not believe in these things. Be sure to remember to maintain even breathing.

Besides hitting the wooden dummy with the wrists, fists, palms, also need (to hit with) the inner/outer ankle bone, lower leg upper and lower 5 inches, shins, inner and outer sides of lower leg, heel. Let the body be totally relaxed, the horse to be stable and not dead, turning motions quick, where the eyes go the hands go, where the hands go the legs go. The four limbs filled with lethal power.

Next time Biu Jee.

Like this ! Great Information!

[PalmStriker]

I think it is very hard to describe the feeling. What an apple taste like.
You know how to find out...

But still, I will try to describe it...

I chisaoed with student in Budapest. He was smaller and thinned than me, probably 20 kilos lighter than me. We did chi sao. I felt his hands, essentially I felt all his body, it was all the time present, powerful and flexible penetrating strength.

I had more than 10 years experience in wing chun behind me, but in si fu Pun school it was first time for me I experienced use of strength in a right way. This is it, so simple...


Jox

Proof of Pudding is in the tasting. Thanks for "sticking" with your observation.

[PalmStriker]

This form has the most complete style of elbow attacks. [To this day I have not met anyone able to evade my elbow attacks. I 'hit target' [1] on my own teacher back in the day]. Wing Chun Kuen's elbow attacks and knee attacks are definitely unlike any other martial arts.

Man lou sau (asking hand), I don't dare speak about seizing the knife but it is very good for seizing the pole, not bad for killing people either. [Back in the days when I was learning, I trained furiously to achieve the quickest methods for killing people. My teacher often said I was too brutal, he had me close my eyes and practice Siu Nim Tau allowing the killing aura be buried within.]

Gan sau. Do not use it to block kicks. It's main purpose is to turn the body to ward off sneak attacks, blocking.

Biu sau. Definitely for killing. Won’t even know how they died. Very good use, but definitely not the 'simple feeble minded applications' from present day video sifus. How to use it, some of my students know. Here I'll leave you in suspense.

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[1] he uses the term 'jung ziu' which means that one has 'suffered an attack'. Could be an actual physical attack, practical joke, confidence trick, etc.

Like this! Nothing "touchy-feely" about this section.

[MOSHE]

Before Moshe's time in WCK when his teacher would have been learning the art from Ng Chan, There was an American married couple (martial artists) who were brought into the fold to learn the "not modified Hong Kong style" of Yip Man's Kung-fu. It was said that her form was better than her husbands (she, like Moshe's teacher asked no questions and just did as trained, while her husband asked to know the purpose for this and that. She was known to be very proficient with the Butterfly Knives. She and her husband could read/speak Mandarin and lived most of the year in Hong Kong but also spent time in the U.S. They were the first Westerners to ever learn from Ng Chan this secreted system. 1981. Two years later the husband allowed his wife to teach my sparring partner (at the time) and myself the non-modified SLT set. The overall set looks much like the SLT formset shown on video by WSL. Except for the movements that are not shown by WSL. My sparring partner and myself were just like our teacher's husband. We asked a lot of questions and she told us what we wanted to know. WLS/SLT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltM2...eature=related

never heard about this couple ,have they a website ?
knowing ng chan ,it seems strange ,or are you referring to someone called jackie lee ?