Ng chan wing chun

[LFJ]

7. Chi-sau while closing eyes.
When you are in fighting, you’re hitting the target which you saw. So doing Chi-sau with closing eyes is totally a big lie!

You can only hit what you see? Maybe for a low level practitioner who doesn't understand the basic Wing Chun principles that make it work, or a practitioner of another art.

An article talking about how everyone else does everything wrong, on a website with videos like these is... funny.

http://www.wingchunkyn.com/videos/students-practices
http://www.wingchunkyn.com/videos/li-shou

[andysken]

Wow I appreciate all your guys concert.
We are not trying to say that "we are the best". Why did Lance Pun write this essay? He is not attempt to have more students. I can tell you guys, this essay in Chinese was on the internet 3 years ago before he went back to China to open his first stadium there. There were many people like you guys, felt angry, felt we were just telling stories, felt we were just rising our reputation by looking down at others. But now, some people understood.
Also, I saw one said that if we can only hit the target we saw, then we were just the beginners in Wing Chun. I'll say: If you still think the Chinese Kung Fu is very mystery and you can feel where the opponent is, then congratulations you are living in the STARWARS dream and may the force be with you.

We do not want the "Masters" use their imaginations to assault Wing Chun, Make Wing Chun so skillless. And their theories are too unlogic.

And our purpose why we put it here, is to let those who can use their noodles to figure it come to think about Wing Chun again.

Moshe have been learning Wing Chun for 24 years. Lance Pun said, he was the only one who mastered the real Wing Chun from the foreign country. And why did Moshe open this
Forum, is to let more people know about the right way of Wing Chun but not the Kung Fu for business use. Because Wing Chun is a part of Chinese culture, we do respect it and feel proud of it.

Of course, as Lance Pun said, if you do not agree or believe what the Essay is talking about, just take it as a joke.

[LFJ]

Also, I saw one said that if we can only hit the target we saw, then we were just the beginners in Wing Chun. I'll say: If you still think the Chinese Kung Fu is very mystery and you can feel where the opponent is, then congratulations you are living in the STARWARS dream and may the force be with you.

There's nothing mysterious about the sensitivity of a normal feeling human being. That's what much of Wing Chun is based upon. Sorry you've missed that basic point.

[andysken]

I've said, all we put on this Forum is talking about the right way of Wing Chun. Those "Masters" have thousands of theories on it. No matter how many people believe in the theories, wrong things are wrong. Like there were so many people believed that 2012 will be the end of the world, but all we have is a brand new 2013.

Again, we are talking about the Wing Chun just because we want people know the truth about it. Believe our words or not, the choice is yours.

[LFJ]

You have to know Wing Chun well before you can talk about what's right or wrong in it... You don't even know how to find and hit a target.

[wingchunIan]

Also, I saw one said that if we can only hit the target we saw, then we were just the beginners in Wing Chun. I'll say: If you still think the Chinese Kung Fu is very mystery and you can feel where the opponent is, then congratulations you are living in the STARWARS dream and may the force be with you.

Andy, its not starwars or any other fantasy mate. The sensitivity / tactile reflex works very well and is not just the preserve of Wing Chun it is employed successfully by all top level grapplers and in a different way by boxers and thai boxers.
When fighting you don't stop to look for targets, you "know" where they are based upon experience and information being received through contact.

If somebody walks up and hugs (best example I could think of with lots of contact from a blind spot) you from behind do you really need to turn round to know where the various parts of their anatomy are? or like most humans can you tell from the feel of their chest against your back and their two arms wrapped around you where their head, groin etc are?

Believing in myths and mystical abilities is one side of the coin, denying the basic realities of human capability because its what you've been told is the other and both are equally limiting.

[LFJ]

It's called "reference points", and any normal feeling human being can do it with no kind of training.

If you have contact with your right hand on someone's wrist, you can close your eyes and touch their elbow with your left hand, and then again touch their ear with your right hand.

Now in Wing Chun sensitivity application, you also receive information from your opponent when contact is made. Their energy tells you how they are moving, in what direction, and with what amount of force.

Combine that information obtained through sensitivity with the reference points known by virtue of being a feeling human being and you can control and hit someone with your eyes closed.

That's how blindfolded chi-sau works. It's a natural skill. Nothing mystical.

Sure it's best to also have your eyes open, but if you need to look at your target to hit it, you are clearly still a low-level practitioner.

[andysken]

It's called "reference points", and any normal feeling human being can do it with no kind of training.

If you have contact with your right hand on someone's wrist, you can close your eyes and touch their elbow with your left hand, and then again touch their ear with your right hand.

Now in Wing Chun sensitivity application, you also receive information from your opponent when contact is made. Their energy tells you how they are moving, in what direction, and with what amount of force.

Combine that information obtained through sensitivity with the reference points known by virtue of being a feeling human being and you can control and hit someone with your eyes closed.

That's how blindfolded chi-sau works. It's a natural skill. Nothing mystical.

Sure it's best to also have your eyes open, but if you need to look at your target to hit it, you are clearly still a low-level practitioner.

I Do Hope you can keep touching. Though I believe what I see.will lead me to the target. And May Force be with you.

[wtxs]

I Do Hope you can keep touching. Though I believe what I see.will lead me to the target. And May Force be with you.

That being said, I'm assuming you were taught the behind-close-door secret WC skill, please share of how you track the targets when you are attacking the upper and the lower gates at the same time ... like do you have an preference of which one of your eyes look at the upper target, and which one look at the lower?. So far I could managed only to cross my eyes.

It's called "reference points", and any normal feeling human being can do it with no kind of training.

If you have contact with your right hand on someone's wrist, you can close your eyes and touch their elbow with your left hand, and then again touch their ear with your right hand.

Now in Wing Chun sensitivity application, you also receive information from your opponent when contact is made. Their energy tells you how they are moving, in what direction, and with what amount of force.

Combine that information obtained through sensitivity with the reference points known by virtue of being a feeling human being and you can control and hit someone with your eyes closed.

That's how blindfolded chi-sau works. It's a natural skill. Nothing mystical.

Sure it's best to also have your eyes open, but if you need to look at your target to hit it, you are clearly still a low-level practitioner.

Indeed ... and seems like he's given Yoshi some competition in the low level department.

[LFJ]

I Do Hope you can keep touching. Though I believe what I see.will lead me to the target. And May Force be with you.

Okay, Master Yoda. I have a few questions for you then. Maybe it will make clear how your Wing Chun works, since mine is obviously fantasy-fu.


What is the purpose of the chi-sau drill to you?

What is the usefulness of sensitivity in your Wing Chun, if it is of any use?

What does "loi lau heui sung, lat sau jik chung" (来留去送，甩手直冲) mean to you?

Is "lat sau jik chung" manual or automatic? (In other words, is it the result of your seeing a gap and intentionally attacking, or is it the result of a mistake the opponent makes which causes themselves to get hit, like loading and releasing a spring into themselves?)

[andysken]

That being said, I'm assuming you were taught the behind-close-door secret WC skill, please share of how you track the targets when you are attacking the upper and the lower gates at the same time ... like do you have an preference of which one of your eyes look at the upper target, and which one look at the lower?. So far I could managed only to cross my eyes.



Indeed ... and seems like he's given Yoshi some competition in the low level department.

I feel very sorry for you. When you watch a foreign movie, through 2hours all the things will leave in your mind are just those subtitles……

[andysken]

Okay, Master Yoda. I have a few questions for you then. Maybe it will make clear how your Wing Chun works, since mine is obviously fantasy-fu.


What is the purpose of the chi-sau drill to you?

What is the usefulness of sensitivity in your Wing Chun, if it is of any use?

What does "loi lau heui sung, lat sau jik chung" (来留去送，甩手直冲) mean to you?

Is "lat sau jik chung" manual or automatic? (In other words, is it the result of your seeing a gap and intentionally attacking, or is it the result of a mistake the opponent makes which causes themselves to get hit, like loading and releasing a spring into themselves?)

I've said very clearly what Chi-sau's purpose in the essay. And if you don't understand the Chinese word, culture, history, don't tell me what you think about “来留去送，甩手直冲” and I can also tell you, though you seem to know the words, it doesn't mean that you know about Wing Chun. Just like, you can have a whole bookshelf of books, but that doesn't mean you have the knowledge.

[LFJ]

I've said very clearly what Chi-sau's purpose in the essay.

I saw only two mentions of chi-sau. In point 9 all you say is chi-sau is for students to learn how to attack their masters. That's pretty darn vague. And in point 7 you seem to equate chi-sau with fighting.

So chi-sau is fighting to you for the purpose of learning how to attack your master?

And if you don't understand the Chinese word, culture, history, don't tell me what you think about “来留去送，甩手直冲”

How do you know I'm not Chinese or that I'm not familiar with Chinese language, culture, and history?

and I can also tell you, though you seem to know the words, it doesn't mean that you know about Wing Chun. Just like, you can have a whole bookshelf of books, but that doesn't mean you have the knowledge.

Since you can't simply answer the question it appears you don't know what it means or know about Wing Chun, even though you are Chinese (as if that would make a difference).


What is this forum for if not to discuss the concepts and principles of Wing Chun? It appears all you want to do is come on here and say everyone else's Wing Chun is wrong and promote your site, and not actually discuss Wing Chun or back up what you're saying... What a joke.

[andysken]

I saw only two mentions of chi-sau. In point 9 all you say is chi-sau is for students to learn how to attack their masters. That's pretty darn vague. And in point 7 you seem to equate chi-sau with fighting.

So chi-sau is fighting to you for the purpose of learning how to attack your master?



How do you know I'm not Chinese or that I'm not familiar with Chinese language, culture, and history?



Since you can't simply answer the question it appears you don't know what it means or know about Wing Chun, even though you are Chinese (as if that would make a difference).


What is this forum for if not to discuss the concepts and principles of Wing Chun? It appears all you want to do is come on here and say everyone else's Wing Chun is wrong and promote your site, and not actually discuss Wing Chun or back up what you're saying... What a joke.

We‘ve opened our door, you can have a try. Then you'll know wether I'm joking or not

[LFJ]

No, I don't think you're joking. "What a joke" means I think you're ridiculous, which you demonstrate now buy resorting to open challenges rather than just explaining yourself, which is what the forum is actually for.

Your website says you're in Foshan. I'm in Shanghai and if I'm gonna make any special trip to see you and learn something at your school, I'd first be interested if you could explain your understanding of the simple lat sau jik chung concept. If you can't even do that, I don't think you're worth the trip. I'm always available in Shanghai though.