How many of YM's students fought??

[k gledhill]

Im sure you didnt aim this at Phil as a former Marine i assume hes faced his fair share of non ring opponents

But getting back to your point if i had a penny for every TCMA guy who claimed to be a bouncer and having faced multipul opponents id be very rich.......i always question how the h*ll they managed to keep their jobs and not get landed in jail especially here in the UK knowing how our police forces are

stories are just that, what ring fighters have usually is easily proven fight records and sparring clips, heck id settle for just some sparring clips from the bouncer crowd

No Phil is an ex-marine so it goes without saying

Yeah if I had a dollar for every troll who said what you did I would also give up one of my 3 jobs .... I have also sparred outside of bars in gyms too I know "outside a bar" , crazy talk !

BTW the local police knew me well, and liked me because I dealt with guys they would have to if I didnt ... the police coached me how to give statements so I wouldn't sound like knocking a guy out cold was a bad thing. They came up with this..." The man attacked me, I threw my hands out to defend myself and he fell over "

[Fa Xing]

They came up with this..." The man attacked me, I threw my hands out to defend myself and he fell over "

LOL!

I like that, and I will have to remember that for later....

[trubblman]

The man attacked me, I threw my hands out to defend myself and he fell over "

When I was in corrections, we were taught to write or say, Such and such attacked me. Fearing for my safety I did_________________.

[Phil Redmond]

No Phil is an ex-marine so it goes without saying

Actually, because I was discharged honorably former Marine is the correct term. Once a Marine, always a Marine is the saying. Every Marine is my brother/sister.
Esprit Du Corps. Semper Fidelis.

[Vajramusti]

Actually, because I was discharged honorably former Marine is the correct term. Once a Marine, always a Marine is the saying. Every Marine is my brother/sister.
Esprit Du Corps. Semper Fidelis.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have had two former Marines as good students.One served in Desert Storm and the other in SE Asia and the Middle east. He was/is a super marksman.

[k gledhill]

Actually, because I was discharged honorably former Marine is the correct term. Once a Marine, always a Marine is the saying. Every Marine is my brother/sister.
Esprit Du Corps. Semper Fidelis.

I stand corrected, yes it doesnt sound right.

[k gledhill]

When I was in corrections, we were taught to write or say, Such and such attacked me. Fearing for my safety I did_________________.

I have many versions as always beware the witnesses who can give ....alternative views had that at a restaurant in China town London one night. We went to Wong KI a huge multilevel rest. with famously rude waiters who literally barked at you to order , if you didnt they would take your menus and scream for you to leave for all to hear.
Well it got so guys would go there just for kicks to rile up the waiters. We would go there after training every class for the good cheap food. We got along with the waiters as well, the head chef being a close friend and student of our sifu.
Anyway a drunk grup of suits shows up and in less than 5 minutes where fighting the waiters, so we joined in to help them and ..hehe things quickly went into full riot, I had one guy pinned to a wall, another was kicking a guy he dropped under a table of eaters..and more of the same...needless to say when the Police showed , the 'witnesses' SAW us beating the c r a P out of the suits and everyone got jailed over night...except myself and another guy who didnt get grassed on...

[EternalSpring]

Not tryna annoy anyone with this question, but I was wondering:

Has it been unanimously agreed on by everyone that a sifu who is not considered a fighter himself(or just doesn't have much fighting experience, because lets be honest, every sifu says they've tested their kung fu in SOME way "on the streets" at least once) cannot produce good fighters?

I personally dont agree with such a notion, although that's just my opinion its only equally (or possibly less) valid than the other opinions here. I think a sifu can understand a lot about the techniques in an art/system/etc and then teach them to someone who wants to fight. And by actual fighting, the student can test what his sifu taught him and eventually be a good fighter if he puts the work in (since, as someone mentioned before, a sifu's fighting ability and experience does not at all mean that his students can fight, otherwise it wouldn't even matter if Yip Man's students fought since most of us can safely conclude that YM at least used his art in combat)

[Yoshiyahu]

Your Sifu cant make you a good fighter...only you can!!!!

Not tryna annoy anyone with this question, but I was wondering:

Has it been unanimously agreed on by everyone that a sifu who is not considered a fighter himself(or just doesn't have much fighting experience, because lets be honest, every sifu says they've tested their kung fu in SOME way "on the streets" at least once) cannot produce good fighters?

I personally dont agree with such a notion, although that's just my opinion its only equally (or possibly less) valid than the other opinions here. I think a sifu can understand a lot about the techniques in an art/system/etc and then teach them to someone who wants to fight. And by actual fighting, the student can test what his sifu taught him and eventually be a good fighter if he puts the work in (since, as someone mentioned before, a sifu's fighting ability and experience does not at all mean that his students can fight, otherwise it wouldn't even matter if Yip Man's students fought since most of us can safely conclude that YM at least used his art in combat)

[jesper]

Not tryna annoy anyone with this question, but I was wondering:

Has it been unanimously agreed on by everyone that a sifu who is not considered a fighter himself(or just doesn't have much fighting experience, because lets be honest, every sifu says they've tested their kung fu in SOME way "on the streets" at least once) cannot produce good fighters?

I personally dont agree with such a notion, although that's just my opinion its only equally (or possibly less) valid than the other opinions here. I think a sifu can understand a lot about the techniques in an art/system/etc and then teach them to someone who wants to fight. And by actual fighting, the student can test what his sifu taught him and eventually be a good fighter if he puts the work in (since, as someone mentioned before, a sifu's fighting ability and experience does not at all mean that his students can fight, otherwise it wouldn't even matter if Yip Man's students fought since most of us can safely conclude that YM at least used his art in combat)

would you take swimming lessons from a man who has never swimmed himself, or learn hockey from a man who has never been on skates himself

[EternalSpring]

would you take swimming lessons from a man who has never swimmed himself, or learn hockey from a man who has never been on skates himself

I dont think that's a fair comparison because one can learn the techniques in Kung fu without fighting (at least imho), but how does a person learn to swim without swimming? How can he play hockey w/o skating (assuming we're talking ice hockey lol)?

From what I understand, what your question is asking is similar to saying "would you learn kung fu from a guy who didn't learn kung fu." It's not the same as asking would you learn martial arts or fighting from someone who didn't fight, because at the very least a person can learn the technique, how to generate force, strike, pad/bag drilling, and even have partner drilling and sparring without actually "fighting." A person who wants to teach swimming without swimming is offering something he cant do. A person who's advertising Kung Fu is advertising Kung fu, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's had a list of fights. Again, this is from my limited perspective/understanding, but people like Yip Man and many of his students were teaching something they called Ving Tsun, and not just "the art of fighting." The art then could be used to fight or just for health, or w/e purpose the practitioner wants. Even the Kuen Kit shows that there's a lot of important concepts besides the martial arts concepts.

But lots of people in this thread seems to be giving off the vibe that if the sifu didn't fight then he cant produce students that can fight. But even the best fighter in the world can't necessarily produce the best fighters out of his students (imo), he can only pass knowledge, just like any sifu, and its up to the student to apply it.

Not to mention that "fight experience" itself is a shakey term. What does it mean? Street fights? Cage fights? Ring Fights? Winning fights that start in clubs/parties/streets/etc is nice and all, but it doesn't really say much if the opponent isn't too skilled himself. And its pretty common for some tough guy douche to act macho and start fights even though he has little or no martial skill.

This response is to the whole thread btw, not just you. I know i mentioned stuff that you didn't even post about. It's just that (again this is my experience), I've seen people who can fight come from sifus who dont have reputations as fighters. Ive seen people on the forum say that the best way to learn how to fight using one's martial art, is to actually fight in some way. I dont disagree with this, but its just that if a person can learn a martial art and not learn how to fight, then that means martial art skills can be passed down by people who aren't fighters, and if a student wants to be a fighter, he'll have to test his skills and refine his tactics through fighting. Just my 2c

/end rant

[Yoshiyahu]

Kung Fu, Karate, Boxing, MMA any other martial arts...Have techniques and drills that any one who knows the system can teach you...

If someone Knows Kyoshukin katas, strikes, principles, and drills they can teach it to you regardless of their fighting experience. They don't need to know how to fight in order to teach you a system....


But when it comes to actually learning how to fight the best way to do so is by sparring first. Spar against other fighters who are good. Learn what your weaknesses are and what strengths you have...Eliminate your weaknesses and empower your strenghts. Also things that your opponents do that work also copy them. Use them as well. This will make you a better fighter. Alls a person who fought can teach you is how they use to fight in their hay day!

[jesper]

Kung Fu, Karate, Boxing, MMA any other martial arts...Have techniques and drills that any one who knows the system can teach you...

If someone Knows Kyoshukin katas, strikes, principles, and drills they can teach it to you regardless of their fighting experience. They don't need to know how to fight in order to teach you a system....


But when it comes to actually learning how to fight the best way to do so is by sparring first. Spar against other fighters who are good. Learn what your weaknesses are and what strengths you have...Eliminate your weaknesses and empower your strenghts. Also things that your opponents do that work also copy them. Use them as well. This will make you a better fighter. Alls a person who fought can teach you is how they use to fight in their hay day!

a MA teacher who doesnt fight or has fought will introduce loads of ****ty flower technics because they looks cool and feel cool. Dont believe me go to any school where the teachers are ex fighters and compare with the dancers of non fighting schools

[Yoshiyahu]

a MA teacher who doesnt fight or has fought will introduce loads of ****ty flower technics because they looks cool and feel cool. Dont believe me go to any school where the teachers are ex fighters and compare with the dancers of non fighting schools

I agree with you...you have a point...But that is also can be said by teachers who are ex fighters...but dont teach actual fighting just drills, conditioning, forms and chi sau...Unless a teacher actually allows students to spar with one another an others from other school there art is baseless. An will end up having no gravity and no real combat or functionality to it...


Those Teachers who produce fighters are the ones who students fight!