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Thread: Video vs. Franchise MA schools

  1. #31
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    Many teachers choose NOT to charge for their instruction, typcially because they have full time jobs and DON'T want to make MA their career.
    However, MANY teachers do have MA as their careers and this is nothing new.
    It was the case in times past in all parts of the world.
    There is no reason for it to be any different now.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    martial arts should be taught free of charge... not meaning you have to teach eveyone, but those who are mean't to learn will seek out a master, that is why it is said that when the student is ready, the master will appear... this is a profound concept that only a select few on the boards can relate to.
    why? why do you think this? This is an empty platitude that someone spouted off once.

    No one should expect anyone else to give them their time, their effort and their knowledge for nothing. Do you do that?

    If my job skill set is martial arts, there is no way I am working for free for anyone.

    And just because you start looking to learn doesn't mean you are ready to learn, it just means you are looking.

    You're ready to learn when you get back up, without anger, and continue to work on not being knocked down.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #33
    "when the student is ready, the master will appear..."

    IMHO... the "master" is within. Teachers can only give so much. At a certain point of your study, there's only one person you can rely on. Then the rest is easy.

  4. #34
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    Teachers give you a core, a base from which to work from, the rest is up to you.
    Its the way it has always been.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  5. #35
    Too true. A lot of guys don't seem to realize that. They seem to waiting for the teacher to impart some special teaching...

  6. #36
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    I haven't seen the videos but there is a distinction to be made here.
    That of running your own school, and that of Franchising a school.
    You can support yourself just running your own school.
    When you start investing in multiple schools you run the risk of the business aspect eclipsing the school aspect. Though having multiple schools is not necessarily bad.

    ATA is what I think of when I think of Franchises.

    I think the problem people have with franchising is the qualities they associate with it like;
    It's generic.
    The lack of quality control.
    The Long term expensive contracts. No one should have to sign a 3 year contract on their first day.
    Expensive testing fees. There is a hundred and one belts so that they can charge you testing fees every month
    Marked up equipment costs.

    The marketing is kind of dishonest.
    They capitalize on people’s ignorance.
    They use stock photos of models who aren't students and not of the school.
    They avoid giving out any real information about the school or the style taught.
    If I can't tell what style you teach by you webpage, I have a problem with that.

    I don’t have a problem with instructors picking up BJJ, after school programs, or krav maga certificates to boost consumer appeal. I do have a problem with kung fu schools advertising as karate/kickboxing/self-defense schools.

    http://www.austinfitnessmartialarts.com/ or http://www.ilovekickboxingaustin.com/
    This is a good kung fu school, but you could never tell that from the website. It's not a franchise school, but is using one those consulting services that model themselves on "successful" franchises. I think the second website is from the consulting service of someone on this board who is a certain deservedly respected Lama Pai Sifu. Can't say I agree with his website design, or marketing campaign, though. If I found either of these websites when I was looking for kung fu schools I would have never gone to this school. Maybe it's just my prejudice here, is there anyone here who would honestly give this school a second look after seeing those websites?
    Last edited by SanHeChuan; 04-06-2010 at 07:18 PM.
    - 三和拳

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    "There is no evidence that the zombie progeny of an incestuous space ghost cares what people do." MasterKiller

    "If there isn't a chance that you're going to lose in a fight, then you're not fighting tough enough competition." ShaolinTiger00

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  7. #37
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    1 Thing about paying for training I think most westerners have a misconception about is that they think in the "old days" sifu's taught for free. When actually in the old days students were not only required to support the sifu with money but also was supposed to perform any kind of labor the sifu required, and not on a voluntary basis.

    @ Sanhechuan- thats what the video is about to some extent
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  8. #38
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    in the past some people taught for free, some people taught to make a living, i think both is ok. but they all had to fight a lot of people to get famous. i think we shud do that today too
    Last edited by bawang; 04-07-2010 at 08:21 AM.

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolindynasty View Post
    @ Sanhechuan- thats what the video is about to some extent
    Having watched the video now, I'd say the dude has a beef with a local chain school doing dirty business. It got a little dramatic and over the top, trying to emulate pop conspiracy videos. Dude definitely had a chip on his shoulder, but who doesn’t after realizing they’ve been taken in by a crap school, weather it was Shaolin-do, ATA, Chung Moo Doe, or some other Cult or Mcdojo.

    If you charge alot of money you better provide quaility instruction to back it up, otherwise people have a right to complain.
    - 三和拳

    "Civilize the mind but make savage the body" Mao Tse Tsung

    "You're certainly intelligent enough to know how to be a good person without the lead weights of religious dogma." Serpent

    "There is no evidence that the zombie progeny of an incestuous space ghost cares what people do." MasterKiller

    "If there isn't a chance that you're going to lose in a fight, then you're not fighting tough enough competition." ShaolinTiger00

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  10. #40
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    many schools use standard salesmanship-leading the client to the close, overcoming objections, closing the sale, and there are scripts that through research, have been proven tried and true by the top people in the industry. It's simply teaching someone what to say and what not to say in order to lead them to the close. It's called, professionalism. (for the most part, when someone has walked into your school, they have already made up their minds to train. You simply have to allow them to sign up without putting your foot in your mouth and leading them out the door instead-which many untrained people do.)
    When you own a business, you want the right people answering the phone, handling walk-ins, info calls, introductory lessons, etc in a professional manner.
    When my senior student answers the phone, she says,
    "Good morning, this is Sue from Ten Tigers Kung-Fu Academy, may I help you?"
    or something similar,
    not, "yeah?"
    There is a difference between being professional and being commercial.
    Whether or not you are a McKwoon depends on the quality of your teaching, not what you charge, have contracts, upgrades, etc.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    There is a difference between being professional and being commercial.
    Whether or not you are a McKwoon depends on the quality of your teaching, not what you charge, have contracts, upgrades, etc.
    To the Former, that is a good distinction to make. As to the latter, it depends. What you charge should be returned in value. When the contracts are introduced, what options you have, and how long you are required to sign them for, and your ability to get out of them under reasonable circumstances, are factors. Upgrades depend on how often and how much, if you are charging an extra hundred dollars a month every month for testing, you're a McKwoon not matter what.
    But yes just having those elements does not make you a McKwoon as long as they are judiciously applied.
    - 三和拳

    "Civilize the mind but make savage the body" Mao Tse Tsung

    "You're certainly intelligent enough to know how to be a good person without the lead weights of religious dogma." Serpent

    "There is no evidence that the zombie progeny of an incestuous space ghost cares what people do." MasterKiller

    "If there isn't a chance that you're going to lose in a fight, then you're not fighting tough enough competition." ShaolinTiger00

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  12. #42
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    The Guy in the Video sounds like a conspiracy theorist who's been watching to many of those video's.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanHeChuan View Post
    If you charge alot of money you better provide quaility instruction to back it up, otherwise people have a right to complain.
    It seems like people on the whole in a general sense don't know really what quality instruction really is. Interestingly, martial arts enthusiasts are not the primary target for a franchise martial arts school.

    So there will be those few who join who are, and have a critical eye, but they end up leaving, and really doesn't affect the business much, because they weren't really the target in the first place.

    And then there are those few schools that strive to appeal to the mainstream who are clueless, but also provide high quality material for advanced martial arts practitioners.

    Most adults are looking for fitness and a "sense" of self defense (not necessarily real self defense, because that involves tolerating a lot of pain). And if they break a sweat doing a bunch of kicks, and feel like they can snap away from someone who statically grabs their wrist, they are happy and will keep coming back. To them, that's quality, because they don't know any better.

    To the martial arts enthusiast, the system is designed to disuade them from continuing in the organization, if they are not "yes men".

    It's like any organization, really. If you are a weak link to their mission, you will leave, either voluntarily or involuntarily. Quality is merely a matter of perception, it varies from someone who knows nothing to an experienced practitioner. In a sense, if you are not a "yes man", there's really no use for you at the organization.

    The hard part I'd imagine, is when a school like the one you mentioned, does a complete facelift that once upon a time targeted martial arts enthusiasts, and then shifted its focus to be more mainstream. But it's an organizational reality, any time an org shifts its mission/focus, there will be people lost along the way. But losing those people is justified by the gaining of many more.
    The 10 Elements of Choy Lay Fut:
    Kum, Na, Gwa, Sau, Chop, Pow, Kup, Biu, Ding, Jong

    The 13 Principles of Taijiquan:
    Ward Off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pluck, Elbow, Shoulder, Split, Forward, Back, Left, Right, Central Equilibrium

    And it doesn't hurt to practice stuff from:
    Mounts, Guards, and Side Mounts!


    Austin Kung-Fu Academy

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by yutyeesam View Post
    It seems like people on the whole in a general sense don't know really what quality instruction really is. Interestingly, martial arts enthusiasts are not the primary target for a franchise martial arts school.
    That is a shame. I understand that many schools get most of their income from the highest turnover group (beginners). So I understand needing to get plenty of new students through the revolving doors. If this is done to keep the doors open for the dedicated students, I’ve got no problem with that. When it’s done just for profit, enthusiasts be d4mn3d, I have a problem with that.

    The hard part I'd imagine, is when a school like the one you mentioned, does a complete facelift that once upon a time targeted martial arts enthusiasts, and then shifted its focus to be more mainstream.
    Just to be clear the school I linked is still a good kung fu school.
    They still try to strike that balance between getting the new and keeping the old.
    - 三和拳

    "Civilize the mind but make savage the body" Mao Tse Tsung

    "You're certainly intelligent enough to know how to be a good person without the lead weights of religious dogma." Serpent

    "There is no evidence that the zombie progeny of an incestuous space ghost cares what people do." MasterKiller

    "If there isn't a chance that you're going to lose in a fight, then you're not fighting tough enough competition." ShaolinTiger00

    BLOG
    MYSPACE
    FACEBOOK
    YOUTUBE

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanHeChuan View Post
    When it’s done just for profit, enthusiasts be d4mn3d, I have a problem with that.
    I agree. I guess the hard part is to figure out what is a "reasonable" profit and what isn't. Obviously, bills have to be paid, which includes the instructor's salary. But what is too much or too little, and how is that determined? Hard to say, in an industry that has no governing body of standards! lol (not that it should)


    Just to be clear the school I linked is still a good kung fu school.
    They still try to strike that balance between getting the new and keeping the old.
    With you 100%. They are a GREAT and very well respected Kung Fu school in Austin. That website did throw me for a loop. I was like, When did Lama Pai Sifu move to Austin???
    The 10 Elements of Choy Lay Fut:
    Kum, Na, Gwa, Sau, Chop, Pow, Kup, Biu, Ding, Jong

    The 13 Principles of Taijiquan:
    Ward Off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pluck, Elbow, Shoulder, Split, Forward, Back, Left, Right, Central Equilibrium

    And it doesn't hurt to practice stuff from:
    Mounts, Guards, and Side Mounts!


    Austin Kung-Fu Academy

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