The FBI Stats RE: Group fight

[friday]

Frost!!! your're the man.

[m1k3]

why do you equate MMA with ground fighting, and grappling with ground fighting? MY clinch game is good enough to f*ck most guys up without ever having to take them down ( as is most MMA guys clinch games), and if i do take them down i can do it quickly enough and cleanly enough to stay on my feet or hit knee on stomach and punish them from there....but heres the thing if it does go to the ground i know i can get back up safely because i practise this against 100kg judo guys and pro MMA fighters..i also know i can shield myself against another guy with his mate, beacuse i practise this too on occasion (you will be amazed at the number of sports guys who do this too) do you?

Good post. Also, not all fights are against multiple opponents or with weapons. In your typical 1 on 1 situation I am very much interested on getting whomever I am fighting on the ground simply because there are so many people who know NOTHING about grappling and it gives me a distinct advantage. This is based on the number of times I have rolled with new white belts and I had no problem in getting them down and acheiving a superior position. For the most part size, strength and previous training in other martial didn't matter. Of course there are always exceptions ( the guy who was a high school wrestling coach for example ).

[Frost]

Good post. Also, not all fights are against multiple opponents or with weapons. In your typical 1 on 1 situation I am very much interested on getting whomever I am fighting on the ground simply because there are so many people who know NOTHING about grappling and it gives me a distinct advantage. This is based on the number of times I have rolled with new white belts and I had no problem in getting them down and acheiving a superior position. For the most part size, strength and previous training in other martial didn't matter. Of course there are always exceptions ( the guy who was a high school wrestling coach for example ).

true and for that matter why is it always assumed he has friends and i don't, most sports guys hang out together, go to fights together etc. i feel confident going to the ground with a few pro fighters watching my back

also for some reason people always equate ground fighting with the guard or mount, if i put someone down i am taking knee on belly and dropping hard shots, or standing up in his guard and soccer kicking him lol this allows me freedom of movement if his mates join in. and you are right it is very very easy to beat someone one on one on the ground if they have no training, and size and strength do not equate to much on the ground (lack of leverage tec) so sometimes it makes sense to go there

[Frost]

Frost!!! your're the man.

sorry if i came across as an a*s i just hate it when people make assumptions about combat sports and sports fighters without first hand expereince, i try not to do the same and only comment on TCMA i have trained in

[friday]

Frost - don't worry.
I just appreciate your frustration when a particular category of TMA people say the same things over and over again...

I agree with you on alot of your points...

[sideslider]

I also base all my research for my papers off of youtube videos...

but intresting...

[Xin quan]

And to answer Sifu's question about what you would be doing on the ground: losing

Nominated for best line of the thread.

[Dragonzbane76]

You can not compare MMA fighters to everyday people. I have seen a lot of fights go to ground, but only because one or both lost balance and ended up there. They continued to bite and gouge, but no jiujitsu. Just because you get taken to the ground does not mean you are about to get whipped. I have had larger men get me off my feet, but once down I continued to punish him. The world is not a ring or octagon. I have black belts in jap jiujitsu, and am fairly good at it, but am loath to go to ground because it makes you vulnerable to attack from outside. I have said this before, and will say it again. Anyone outside a sports fighting ring that deliberately goes to ground is foolish.
Last night I watched some octagon from back when they didn't have many rules and no gloves. Royce Gracie before he got caught using steriods. Looks a whole lot different from todays octagon fights. Because no one wanted to be hit bare knuckle they did not seem to want to stand and trade punches, but would try to wrestle their opponent to the floor. That is ring fighting where you are one on one. In any situation where you are involved in an altercation, and you seem to be getting the best end of it, your opponents will try to intervene, and this usually includes kicking and punching your blind side. A good example was on Operation Repo the other night. Some MMA hotshot squared off with the bald wrestler guy, and took him to ground. He didn't get a full mount, which hardly matters, as the other repo guy grabbed him around the neck and took him off and down where both of them disabled him and held him in an arm bar. He had this silly idea that you have to go down to whip someone. Unless you are one on one and you are skilled in some serious manner you are putting yourself at great risk.

As frost so eloquently stated, why do people assume when speaking of the ground you are speaking of MMA? You cannot go into a fight assuming that you will stay on your feet. What you want and what will happen are 2 different things. Situations dictate what you should be advancing upon. I guess if you are in a place with a bunch of people that wanna kick your a$$ then you probably should leave and fast, and if you do get into an altercation then you probably shouldn't go to the ground. But on the next level, as frost put in, I usually travel around, if out, with a crew of friends myself (which most are people whom train).

Thing is if you are in a situation where you are stuck in a dark alley with only yourself, then my point is you shouldn't have been there in the first place. Be aware of your surroundings.

[RenDaHai]

Great Study!

THe thing that bothers me about the stat '90% of fights end up on the ground' is that a lot of people imply it and take it to mean that the fight is 'Decided' on the ground.

Although as you have pointed out that 72% end with at least one fighter on the ground. THis is good, but let me give you an example: Say a fighter goes down because the other guy hit him so hard he was dazed, then the second fighter mounts him and pounds to conclusion. In this situation the fight was really decided standing up, the ground part was not a fight, it was an @sskicking.

HOw many of the fights where both parties went to the ground and the fight was really fought and decided while on the ground?

Because I know the statistic doesn't say that but that is what alot of people imply when they use it.

I mean, if someone gets KO'd they fall to the ground, but that shouldn't count right?

[Frost]

Great Study!

THe thing that bothers me about the stat '90% of fights end up on the ground' is that a lot of people imply it and take it to mean that the fight is 'Decided' on the ground.

Although as you have pointed out that 72% end with at least one fighter on the ground. THis is good, but let me give you an example: Say a fighter goes down because the other guy hit him so hard he was dazed, then the second fighter mounts him and pounds to conclusion. In this situation the fight was really decided standing up, the ground part was not a fight, it was an @sskicking.

HOw many of the fights where both parties went to the ground and the fight was really fought and decided while on the ground?

Because I know the statistic doesn't say that but that is what alot of people imply when they use it.

I mean, if someone gets KO'd they fall to the ground, but that shouldn't count right?

the straight KO's shouldn't count no but being knocked down mounted and punched should as an MMA trained guy trains to deal with this and the ability to recoer whilst getting hit is a valuable one

but you are right the stats don't show what you are asking, but they do show that learning how to move on the ground and get back up safely if knocked down might be a useful thing to know

[David Jamieson]

Mathematics, erudition, penmanship, writing skills, etiquette and protocol are not the strong points of martial artists for the most part.

:-)

any data given by a martial artist needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
If someone uses a percentage, it behooves them to cite where it came from, otherwise deal with it as if it is a bs number.

In short, no one has ever actually measured how many fights go to the ground, stay stand up or how long they last. TO state that you know that x% of any fight does anything is a glaring indication of one's own ignorance more so than their understanding of something.

just sayin...