westboro baptist WTF

[Dragonzbane76]

This is an organization of messed up individuals. I don't understand there logic but being a nut case doesn't really mean logic is involved in the first place.

Here is an artical that they will be protesting against the dead miners they found. Anyways there is a special hell somewhere for these kind of people.

http://ecopolitology.org/2010/04/09/...west-virginia/

[David Jamieson]

there are problems in all the fundamental religions, be they christian, jewish, muslim, buddhist, hindu, you name it and tre will be people within them that have their own agenda, their hate full and intact and they are oblivious to the teachings of the fold they wrap themselves in.

sort of like a homeless person who makes a coat of money to keep warm without realizing the value of the money.

You can't help them, but think of them as already dead and it may help your perspective somewhat and help you to understand your own reality a little better.

[Dragonzbane76]

yeah i'm not religious, so I don't understand many of the things people do for the sake of religion.

[Matt Stone]

When you consider that a large portion of the American population really, truly believes in people made out of dirt, talking snakes, magic fruit, and an invisible being that killed himself in order that he might forgive his creations for being as he made them in the first place, how is it such a stretch to believe that some of them behave like these Westboro nutjobs?

[uki]

all i can say is that each of us gets exactly what we were supposed to experience... i believe in fate/pre-destiny... all things happen for a reason - i personally do not thank anyone when people are killed, yet i do hope a stray comet decides to smack some sense into our species.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

For those who believe in the Bible as the inspired Word of GOD; it is pretty clear that ****sexuality is a sin and wrong, period.

Having said that; the Bible and Jesus taught from a spirit of Love. Jesus did not teach us to sit in Judgment of one another, but to help one another in a Spirit of Love. I myself may not feel that ****sexuality is right, however it is not my place to preach that to the rest of the world. If someone asks my opinion I will give it. However, that persons lifestyle is between them and God, not up to me to Judge.

As to the members of this church; I think that we are seeing the hand of God and his Judgment on our society and lifestyle choices. However, I do not think anyone should be thankful for the death of anyone. I also feel it is inappropriate and disrespectful to demonstrate at someones funeral or at the scene of a tragedy.

IMHO, if one truly follows the teachings of Christ then one should offer comfort and consolation not sit in Judgment. I doubt any of us has reached the point where our lives are without blemish or stain, I know I haven't.

FWIW, I feel groups like this give Christians a bad name and are outside the Spirit of the Lord and the Teachings of Christ.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I have always considered religion to be for the poor and uneducated. But I have come to know that there are some rather afluent, educated people that are religious as well. I personally have never felt the need for religion, and I think I would be embarissed if I were to try. Religion is akin to belief in magic, which is impossible. Religion is a good medium to use in the amassing of fortune or for controlling the masses, but it always leads to persicution and prosicution of others as well as murder and genecide. All out of mans vanity.

[Dragonzbane76]

yet i do hope a stray comet decides to smack some sense into our species.

couldn't agree more. Most of the time we see the worst in people. But every once and awhile we see that glimmer of hope. The scale sways back and forth.

[Matt Stone]

For those who believe in the Bible as the inspired Word of GOD;

For which there is absolutely no evidence… It is far more likely the “word of man” as decided by overly controlling, self-centered, power-hungry middle-eastern religious leaders who employed the legitimization of mythology to control the superstitious masses.

it is pretty clear that ****sexuality is a sin and wrong, period.

Without any justification of any kind whatsoever… It’s “wrong” because the bible says it’s “wrong,” and that’s that. That’s hardly justification for anything. “It’s wrong because my book says it’s wrong” is equally applicable to the book I have on my coffee table that says heterosexuality is wrong (no, I don’t really have a book like that, but that’s not the point). “But my book is the right one!” Who gets to win with that kind of foundationless argument? "But it’s the bible!" So? It’s no more authoritative than the eddas, the sutras, or any other “sacred” writing. Please, these people need better justification for their twisted ideas than this circular silliness.

Having said that; the Bible and Jesus taught from a spirit of Love.

No, no, not really… Even Jesus (and I pronounce it “hay-zeus”) had a mean streak. Of course, he usually took it out on inanimate objects (they don’t fight back) for such terrible behavior as not having fruit when he wanted a snack, but he was still quite the intolerant. And condemning anyone to Hell for eternity certainly is a twisted and bizarre form of love, don’t you think? Encouraging your followers to abandon their families in order to follow him? Sounds a little Jim-Jones-ish, don’t you think?

Jesus did not teach us to sit in Judgment of one another, but to help one another in a Spirit of Love.

Really? How is it, then, that so many Christians have gotten this so terribly, terribly wrong, then? Who has “th3 r3al Kr1st1An1ty” then?

I myself may not feel that ****sexuality is right,

Then don’t participate in it. I don’t think that sweet tea is “right” so I don’t drink it, and I don't think anal fisting, hang-gliding, bestiality, or wine tasting is “right” so I don’t do those, either.

however it is not my place to preach that to the rest of the world.

Another point where you’re wrong… All the gospels encourage christians to go out and proselytize, to convey the word of Jesus (again, “hay-zeus”) to the four corners of the earth. With that goes preaching the alleged “values” carried within their holy magic book.

If someone asks my opinion I will give it. However, that persons lifestyle is between them and God, not up to me to Judge.

First, none of my gay friends ever asked my opinion on their lifestyles. I stay out of it, just as they stay out of my heterosexuality (something that’s not right for them). Further, it’s not up to God, just their partner(s). But you do judge, because you say “it’s not right” as opposed to saying “it’s not right for me."

As to the members of this church; I think that we are seeing the hand of God and his Judgment on our society and lifestyle choices.

You mean the United States, the Nation the fundies constantly try to identify as a christian one, “under God,” is the country that’s making such poor lifestyle choices??? And who, pray tell, is making them? With the larger portion of the country identifying itself as christian, it certainly shouldn’t be the christians pointing fingers at anyone else, laying the blame on their behavior as if the christians were somehow any different than anyone else because they believe jewish zombies really exist. That’s flatly nonsensical. If they were busier loving their neighbors instead of spreading hate speech and being caught ass-up/face-down in a pile of cocaine while their gay prostitutes slammed happily away, they may have managed to set a better example...

What we’re seeing is the resultant end state of poor education and allowing adults to believe in fairy tales long after they should have set aside such superstitions…

However, I do not think anyone should be thankful for the death of anyone.

Your death cult religion would disagree… According to your religion, the death of someone, and their alleged pending return to God’s side (because you don’t go to heaven when you die, ever; christians only ever go to heaven after the end of times when Jesus judges the living and the dead – between now and then, you’re just worm food taking a dirt nap), is something to be celebrated. So do you only celebrate the death of those who share your superstition?

I also feel it is inappropriate and disrespectful to demonstrate at someones funeral or at the scene of a tragedy.

Regardless of religion – that of the protestor or the decedent – such actions are distasteful and rude. These douche bags do so and feel they’re perfectly justified “through” Jesus (whatever that means).

IMHO, if one truly follows the teachings of Christ then one should offer comfort and consolation not sit in Judgment.

See above. You’re not reading your entire bible if you think you’re encouraged to sit by and just be comforting. Jesus, especially according to Paul, wants you out there in peoples’ faces.

I doubt any of us has reached the point where our lives are without blemish or stain, I know I haven't.

Well, these folks believe they’ve been “born again” and “saved” and so they can do as they please in the name of “da Lowrd.” Hard to argue with that, don’t you think? They genuinely believe, as do most religious people that I’ve had to endure, that they’re morally superior to anyone and everyone else. They pay lip service to the contrary position for the sake of social graces, but they don’t believe it for a minute. If they thought it, knew it, and believed it, they wouldn’t be pointing fingers in everyone’s faces all the ****ed time! There are entire networks devoted to 30 minutes of “feel-good” god-speak, punctuated with hour-long anti-everyone-else rants by raving whackjobs, with nary a “moderate believer” stepping into the public realm to decry their behavior. If that self-belittling attitude is really the belief du jour, more christians should start DWJSTD (or Doing What Jesus Said To Do).

FWIW, I feel groups like this give Christians a bad name and are outside the Spirit of the Lord and the Teachings of Christ.

Christians give christians a bad name. The bible gives whatever morality plays contained therein, and whatever lessons might have been learned therefrom, a bad name by including all the other heinous garbage that’s right there under your nose. By not getting that crap gone, christians make themselves look even worse by trying to argue those evil passages are the best an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent god could do through his all-too-human writers. Some god, if he couldn’t manage to get the books to say what he meant them to say in the first place. Hell, even I, a lowly, atheistic human can manage to write exactly what I want to say, how I want to say it, usually first time out. How many tries did their god take and he still hasn’t managed to get people to figure out what he’s been trying to say (if he were real, that is; the fact that all the assembled religions contain equally vile material, and they all point fingers at the others and cry “foul,” and none of them make any sense whatsoever without extensive explanation and apologetics, makes for quite a substantial case for “they weren’t inspired by any god whatsoever”)?

Enjoy.

[Sihing73]

Hello Matt,

Perhaps you should re-read the Bible.

Yes, Jesus wanted his followers to spread the word and to bring the Gospel to the ends of the Earth. However as the parable of the Sower clearly explains it is not man that brings forth fruit but the Holy Spirit. Thus one is to present the gospel but is not required to sit in Judgment and ram it down anyones throat. So if I tell someone something regarding what teh Bible says, I can continue to do so providing they are receptive or I can pray and let God work in their hearts. It really is not up to me. Although, some are called to be preachers and evangelists and they will do things differently.

I guess you also missed the references to nt judging others found in the New testimant as well.

If you believe that the Bible is the Word of God; then yes if it says something is wrong it is wrong. FWIW Christianity is not a religion it is a Faith.

Where was Jesus' mean streak which you refer to? The only incident which would even come close would be with the Money Changers in the Temple and, IMHO, one would be hard pressed to consider that a "mean streak".

Also, I am not a member of any "Death Cult". Also your reference to "worm food" agains shows your lack of knowledge concerning the Bible and it's teachings. The Bible clearly states that to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord. Yes, all will be judged in the end but until then, those in death are not in some semi-comatose state awaiting judgment.

You are welcome to your beliefs just as I am welcome to mine. If you are correct in your beliefs than no big worry. However, if those who believe in the Bible are correct........................................... ......one day we will know for sure

[Matt Stone]

Perhaps you should re-read the Bible.

Nah... Other, far better written fiction out there to be had.

If you are correct in your beliefs than no big worry. However, if those who believe in the Bible are correct........................................... ......one day we will know for sure

That's called "Paschal's Wager," and it's a shoddy way to live... You live under the presumption that, in order to maximize the chances of "winning," it's better to believe, living a lie of a life, obeying rules out of fear of retribution and punishment, than chancing living otherwise.

It's dishonest.

Be good because being good is the good thing to be. Not because some bronze-age goat-herd cult religion (and it is a religion; you're trying to play games with words by saying it's a "faith" thinking that "faith" is anything but a synonym for "religion") says its sky-god is going to punish his creations in an eternity of burning hellfire if you don't obey him (but he LOVES you!).

And if you can be good without god (and you can - people do it every day), what need is there of god? If we're capable of identifying right and wrong, good and evil, predicated upon that which injures our neighbors the least, what need is there of an antiquated fear of a long-dead fictional Mesopotamian deity just because your mommy and daddy couldn't see fit to dispose of that childish story (designed to keep ignorant children well-behaved)?

Modern humanity no longer believes that Zeus, Odin, Baal, or Ra are any more "real" than Santa, leprechauns, purple fairy-winged dragons, invisible pink unicorns or flying spaghetti monsters. You tell me why those deities aren't "real," and you'll have a satisfactory answer for why your make-believe friend isn't real, either...

[Dragonzbane76]

(grabs popcorn, passes bowl around. )

[David Jamieson]

Passing Judgment on others is not what Christians do.
In fact, the act of passing judgment on others according to what scriptures teach is as unchristian as it gets and is just as bad a reflection on the person who is doing the judging.

You don't have to like things, but you do have to accept reality as according to the teachings of jesus.

Jesus never told anyone to hate anything.
Jesus never said anything about judging others, in fact he more than once stated exactly the opposite.

It is not anyone's place to judge, to make judgment or to pass judgment on another.

this is not about rule of law either, it is about your spiritual nourishment, of which you have none when you participate in hate.

According to the teachings of jesus you must: "render unto Caesar what is Caesars and render unto god what is gods"

If you taint the immortal soul you believe in with hatred and intolerance, then you are staining yourself and making your own judgment by god to be more severe, by your own beliefs.

If there is one thing Jesus made clear it is that we should love each other no matter what. So people who actively use scripture to make arguments about their own moral perspective are in fact sinning before jesus and before god.

nobody said it would be easy being a spiritually conscious person. nobody said it's easy to be a christian.

To be these things truly, it is difficult. The churches are filled with ruinous minds and offensive people from priest to worshiper.

Often we cloak our evils in righteous garbs simply so that we may stomach their foulness more readily.

It is much easier to not have to deal with ones own spiritual shortcomings when they can point fingers and jabber about someone elses. This is the unfortunate truth of the matter and this is what needs to be corrected in those people who claim to be christian.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am a christian, though I have not always been so.
How I became is irrelevant.
Hate, bigotry, intolerance and unaccepteance are all traits of LACK of Christian love.
People that act this way are examples of those LACKING Christian ideal, not those "full of them".
They are full of something else.
There are things that Christians do NOT do, they are commanded to NOT do and passing judgment, like David said, is One of them.
We ARE commanded to LOVE our neighbours and that means EVERYONE.

Christianity has MUCH to answer for because it has strayed away from the path of Jesus (who has nothing to answer for) and become an "organization" and has become the "will of man" and not "the love of God".

Salvation, for Christians is via Jesus Christ, but many people think that means BEING a Christian in the "doctrinal sense", it does NOT mean that.
One can be saved if one is NOT a christian because Salvation comes from Jesus and Jesus is the only path to God.

You may ask, what's the difference? doesn't that mean you have to be christians?

I answer thusly:
"For man nothing is possible, For God all is possible"
Christianity has been corrupted by man, Jesus has not, CAN NOT and as such, He is our saviour and judge so it is up to JESUS to decide Salvation.

[Matt Stone]

So all of you believe wholly in the story of Adam and Eve as depicted in Genesis? Word for word, inerrant?

He is our saviour and judge so it is up to JESUS to decide Salvation.

Please explain - why did God have to incarnate himself as a human so that he could have himself killed, a human sacrifice, in order to forgive his creations, who he, in his omniscience, knew beforehand would disobey him and therefore made deliberately "flawed?" Why couldn't he just say "Aw, shucks, you rascals! I forgive you because I love you."

Please explain - what is the purpose of human sacrifice... Plenty of examples in the bible where God really seems to enjoy the death of his creations and calls it "pleasing."

Please explain - why is blood sacrifice necessary at all?

And lastly, if you don't believe in the literal story of Adam and Eve, then there was no original taint of sin which would require God to commit suicide in order to forgive anyone in the first place, rendering the entire story moot, pointless, and calling into question whether it happened in the first place... (which is likely didn't, but that's another discussion entirely)