Foes of Tea Party movement to plan to infiltrate them

[Reality_Check]

You do realize the quite apart from our differing views on politics the fact is.. we can certainly both do the math.

The tea party folks push the GOP further to the right. This makes them (on a national level) run more conservative candidates who use more conservative rhetoric. This makes them less electable in the general elections (though it does help assure they lock down their primary).

We can argue about who's correct in ideology all day long.. but if the Left had a structurally similar movement (say a Radical Green Worker's Party, avowing open socialism and currency controls or something) that would do the same things to the Dems.

The Tea Party is courting an electoral disaster for the GOP. Does anyone remember what happened to Perot's "Reform Party"?

I'm actually curious to see how this turns out on a national level. We already saw it in microcosm last year with Doug Hoffman in NY's 23rd District. The seat had been held by Republicans for over a century. Dede Scozzafava was seen as not conservative enough, so she was pushed out in favor of Hoffman. The result was a victory by Democrat Bill Owens.

[dimethylsea]

If you are correct, why do liberals/socialists always run to the center instead of saying how left they are?
[/B]

That's precisely my point.. politicians who run like they are centrists tend to do better in the general election that people who hard to either right or left do.

[David Jamieson]

That's precisely my point.. politicians who run like they are centrists tend to do better in the general election that people who hard to either right or left do.

I dunno, McCain is more or less a centrist conservative.
He lost.

He could've won if not for Bush being put in as the front man for the GOP, It realy should've been McCain.

Dude probably tastes bile every time he swallows.
Poor dude has watched his party turn into a freakshow 3 ring circus.
Conservatism in America is fractured and practically dead, Overrun with Neo-con idiots who are like throw backs to the McCarthy era. Or it's tea party whackos who want that moniker of "conservative real american" and then you have incredibly silly people like Sarah Palin deciding she's gonna tell you who's american and who's not based on whether or not they throw their hat in with her?

America, you got some problems. lol
But then, so does our country. We have the same fractured conservatives here as well. Fiscally responsible, small government with strong oversight is simply not available. It's dead.

We get martial law proponents who want the rich and wealthy to finance the corporate take over of the country because they make jobs

We get the libertarians who all want to break off into little unstable nations and hide in caves with guns and bible.

We get secessionists, not unlike the breakoff libertarians, except they want to go out with a bang it seems.

and then you got your other side of the coin where you have teh exact opposite of these.

A centrist in a true sense is a rare beast and it is more because the society we live in and that political constructs we are functioning with are profoundly broken.

Sure we live longer, sure we live better, but at what cost?

[SanHeChuan]

Sure we live longer, sure we live better, but at what cost?

Cost... Um, we get to live longer and better.

[David Jamieson]

Cost... Um, we get to live longer and better.

who is we?

[1bad65]

I'm actually curious to see how this turns out on a national level. We already saw it in microcosm last year with Doug Hoffman in NY's 23rd District. The seat had been held by Republicans for over a century. Dede Scozzafava was seen as not conservative enough, so she was pushed out in favor of Hoffman. The result was a victory by Democrat Bill Owens.

Scozzafava and Hoffman split the vote. If you add their votes together, it's actually more than the Democrat got. And in that race, the Republican who dropped out actually endorsed the Democrat!

[1bad65]

That's precisely my point.. politicians who run like they are centrists tend to do better in the general election that people who hard to either right or left do.

Ronald Reagan disproved that. And he won two landslides, the biggest the GOP has ever won.

[Reality_Check]

Scozzafava and Hoffman split the vote. If you add their votes together, it's actually more than the Democrat got. And in that race, the Republican who dropped out actually endorsed the Democrat!

That is exactly my point. The ideological purity test cost the Republicans the seat.

[1bad65]

That is exactly my point. The ideological purity test cost the Republicans the seat.

Hoffman was not a Republican. He was a Conservative Party member. Had they nominated a conservative in the first place, rather than a liberal with an (R) next to her name, they would have likely kept the seat.

[dimethylsea]

Ronald Reagan disproved that. And he won two landslides, the biggest the GOP has ever won.

Yes but even Reagan was not as far to the right as many in the present GOP squawk section.

FOX News and the GOP had a field day with Obama signing the nuke treaty.. but it's the sort of thing Reagan did and spoke in favor of.

Again.. we will see come November. My suspicion is that the Demos will keep both houses by a narrow margin.

The more interesting question I would put to you is this..

ASSUMING the Demos keep 51 votes in the Senate after November (certainly within the realm of possibility I think you will grant) what are the chances of a change in the Senate rules to modify the filibuster privileges of Senators?

I'm curious.. what do you think is likely (assuming the Demos don't lose the Senate by some freak electoral wave)

[Reality_Check]

Hoffman was not a Republican. He was a Conservative Party member. Had they nominated a conservative in the first place, rather than a liberal with an (R) next to her name, they would have likely kept the seat.

Yes, he did run on the Conservative Party line, but he had enormous support from the Republican machine (for lack of a better word).

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York's_23rd_congressional_district_special_ele ction,_2009)

Former US Senator Fred Thompson
Former Republican presidential candidate Gary Bauer
New York State Right to Life Political Action Committee
Columnist Michelle Malkin
Columnist Bill Kristol
RedState
Talk radio host Mark Levin
Talk radio host Rush Limbaugh
Talk radio host Sean Hannity
Talk radio host Glenn Beck
Talk radio host Hugh Hewitt
Talk radio host Michael Medved
Talk radio host Laura Ingraham
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey
Representative Michele Bachmann
Former Governor of Alaska Sarah Palin
Former US Senator Rick Santorum
Representative Todd Tiahrt
Former Republican presidential candidate Steve Forbes
Governor of Minnesota Tim Pawlenty
James Dobson
Representative John Linder, former chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee
New York Post
US Senator Jim DeMint
Representative Dana Rohrabacher
Representative Tom Cole, former chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee
Representative Todd Akin
Representative Steve King
Representative Jeff Flake
Publisher Alfred Regnery
Conservative writer Richard Viguerie
Governor of Texas Rick Perry
Representative Mary Fallin
Representative Paul Broun
Representative John C. Fleming
Representative John Shadegg
Former Governor of New York and First Lady of New York George Pataki and Libby Pataki
Captain Scott O'Grady, United States Air Force (retired)
Mayor of Plattsburgh Donald Kasprzak (originally endorsed Scozzafava)
Representative Darrell Issa (originally endorsed Scozzafava)
Representative Pete Sessions, chairman of the NRCC (originally endorsed Scozzafava)
Representative Eric Cantor, House Minority Whip
Representative John Boehner, House Minority Leader (originally endorsed Scozzafava)
Michael Steele, Chairman of the Republican National Committee
Former Governor of Arkansas Mike Huckabee
Representative Mike Pence, chairman of the House Republican Conference
Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (originally endorsed Scozzafava)
Former Representative and 2010 Gubernatorial Candidate Rick Lazio
New York State Young Republicans
Assembly Minority Leader Brian Kolb
Former Governor of Colorado Bill Owens

Scozzafava was leading Owens in the polls 35% to 27% as of 10/1/08. Once Hoffman entered the race, that lead evaporated to 33% to 29% as of 10/15/08, in favor of Owens with Hoffman at 23%.

Now, would Scozzafava still have trailed Owens without Hoffman entering the race? I don't know. Though it does appear that Republicans/Conservatives shot themselves in the foot by using an ideological purity test on Scozzafava. By running someone to her right, they lost the election.

[1bad65]

Now, would Scozzafava still have trailed Owens without Hoffman entering the race? I don't know. Though it does appear that Republicans/Conservatives shot themselves in the foot by using an ideological purity test on Scozzafava. By running someone to her right, they lost the election.

If they had nominated a candidate more in line with the outgoing Republican Congressman, they wouldn't have had a 3rd Party candidate enter the race. Instead they nominated Scozzafava, who is more liberal than many Democrats.

I notice you have not mentioned the US Senate election in Massachusetts to replace the guy who killed Mary Jo Kapechne....

[MasterKiller]

I notice you have not mentioned the US Senate election in Massachusetts to replace the guy who killed Mary Jo Kapechne....

You mean the guy all the Tea Partiers are p1ssed at for being centrist and nonpartisan? LOL!

[1bad65]

Yes but even Reagan was not as far to the right as many in the present GOP squawk section.

Yes he was. Can you name a GOP candidate nominated since Reagan that you consider further right? If so, how did he/she do in the election?

ASSUMING the Demos keep 51 votes in the Senate after November (certainly within the realm of possibility I think you will grant) what are the chances of a change in the Senate rules to modify the filibuster privileges of Senators?

I'm curious.. what do you think is likely (assuming the Demos don't lose the Senate by some freak electoral wave)

If they keep control, I would not be surprised if they changed the rules to suit themselves. They have a history of doing this. They shot through a bill in New Jersey putting Lautenberg on the ballot well after the date to be on the ballot had passed because the current Democrat on the ballot (Torricelli) was facing corruption charges and behind in the polls. Also, they attempted to change the laws TWICE within 10 years in Massachusetts to benefit themselves in US Senate elections. First, they changed it to a special election to replace Senators who left early because they felt Kerry would beat Bush and they had a Republican Governor at the time (Romney). Once the Democrat Corzine became Governor and Mary Jo Kepechne's killer got brain cancer, they tried to change it back to the Governor appointing the new Senator.

[David Jamieson]

Wanna put a ban bet on it?

If the Republicans don't take either chamber, I'm banned.
If the Republicans take both chambers, you're banned.
If we take one and not the other, it's a push.

You gonna put your money where your mouth is?

lol. money eh.

how much you got?

why do you make these emotional tantrums in print?
You chip away at your own credibility with this kind of stuff.

The problem with this is that I don't trust you to leave and ban yourself. You don't have that capacity for admission of wrong.
One can see that by simply reading through any one of your hundreds of blinders on neo-con ditto head diatribes that you lay down wherever you go.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes, and in November, We'll have a good laugh and see where it goes form there.

In the meantime, paxil man, paxil could be your friend! lol