WC in MMA

[Knifefighter]

This is what Wing Chun looks like when it is trained and fought full contact in an MMA environment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gR3beL5CWo

A good example of how WC should be used against another trained multi-discipline fighter.

[t_niehoff]

Instead of focusing on what WCK will look like in MMA, I think it is better to focus the question more narrowly -- how will YOUR WCK look in MMA? Can YOU do in fighting what YOU train to do as YOU train to do it? That's the test for any martial art or martial artist.

The ONLY way to know the answer to that question is to try it and see -- fight/spar in a MMA environment. If a person hasn't done that, all they have is speculation and fantasy.

[Lee Chiang Po]

So, which one was doing Wing Chun? I couldn't tell. T is right, the only way to see if what you do works is to fight, but not in a MMA atmosphere. Everything turns into Muay Thai in a MMA situation. I get a kick out of watching the MMA fights on TV where they introduce the fighters as some sort of Martial Arts belt holder, but you never see it in the fights. You would expect to see some of each fighters trained skills, but for some reason all we see is the same thing with both fighters. Just like this video clip. It just looks like 2 amature MMA fighters doing boxing and slap kicking.
If you are going to prove anything you are going to have to get away from this MMA thing and come up with a way to have full contact fights without all the rules and equipment. You are going to have to stop training MMA and training whatever skill set you have. If you train MMA fighting like everyone else does you will end up fighting the MMA way.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So, which one was doing Wing Chun? I couldn't tell. T is right, the only way to see if what you do works is to fight, but not in a MMA atmosphere. Everything turns into Muay Thai in a MMA situation. I get a kick out of watching the MMA fights on TV where they introduce the fighters as some sort of Martial Arts belt holder, but you never see it in the fights. You would expect to see some of each fighters trained skills, but for some reason all we see is the same thing with both fighters. Just like this video clip. It just looks like 2 amature MMA fighters doing boxing and slap kicking.
If you are going to prove anything you are going to have to get away from this MMA thing and come up with a way to have full contact fights without all the rules and equipment. You are going to have to stop training MMA and training whatever skill set you have. If you train MMA fighting like everyone else does you will end up fighting the MMA way.

That was awesome !!!

[goju]

im gonna dig a big pit in my backyard and we can fight to the death in it

any takers?

[t_niehoff]

So, which one was doing Wing Chun? I couldn't tell. T is right, the only way to see if what you do works is to fight, but not in a MMA atmosphere. Everything turns into Muay Thai in a MMA situation.

What I am saying is that I don't think it prudent to paint with a broad brush (what should WCK look like) but rather make the question a personal/individual one (do you fight like you train to fight).

You DO need to put anything you do in a MMA environment since that environment permits the contestants to fight in all ranges (stand up, clinch and ground). What good is your stand up if you can be taken down at will (which completely neutralizes your stand up)?

When you do put what you do in a MMA environment, you will find that it will force you to greatly adapt your game.

I get a kick out of watching the MMA fights on TV where they introduce the fighters as some sort of Martial Arts belt holder, but you never see it in the fights. You would expect to see some of each fighters trained skills, but for some reason all we see is the same thing with both fighters. Just like this video clip. It just looks like 2 amature MMA fighters doing boxing and slap kicking.
If you are going to prove anything you are going to have to get away from this MMA thing and come up with a way to have full contact fights without all the rules and equipment. You are going to have to stop training MMA and training whatever skill set you have. If you train MMA fighting like everyone else does you will end up fighting the MMA way.

MMA isn't a "style" or an "art" -- it is a ruleset, an environment. Fighters who compete in MMA, or just practice it for fun, do what works, whatever works. If you show them something that works better, they'll steal it. There is a reason that you see the same things in all MMA fights -- those are the things that have proved to work consistently, and so people adopt them.

If I put you in a MMA environment for 6 months and had you spar regularly, you'd start doing those things that work and stop doing those things that don't (since you'd keep getting killed doing those things).

When you don't go through that process, it is easy to fantasize about what you would or could do.

[chusauli]

In my system, we don't use a "vertical" punch - we use a "diagonal" punch - a vertical fist held with the thumb upwards at a 45 degree angle. This is the same angulation of the punch I learned from William Cheung and Hawkins Cheung.

Aaron is using my system, at the end of the fight, he has trapped the opponent and is executing several punches in succession before he submits him with a guillotine (last move of Biu Jee).

[SAAMAG]

Last move of biu gee is a guillotine?? I thought the last move was the 3 bows to budda or whatever people call it. Sometimes depending on the lineage some people have punches or kicks at the end. But generally it's the bows with the prayer palm overhead.

A guillotine?!

[Pacman]

Aaron is using my system, at the end of the fight, he has trapped the opponent and is executing several punches in succession before he submits him with a guillotine (last move of Biu Jee).

if that is trapping, then every bully in the united states who gets his victim in a headlock and starts pounding away is a wing chun expert too.

aaron won the fight because he was in better shape. the other guy was gassed.

aside from the alleged "trapping" what other use of wing chun was there?

[Lee Chiang Po]

What I am saying is that I don't think it prudent to paint with a broad brush (what should WCK look like) but rather make the question a personal/individual one (do you fight like you train to fight).

You DO need to put anything you do in a MMA environment since that environment permits the contestants to fight in all ranges (stand up, clinch and ground). What good is your stand up if you can be taken down at will (which completely neutralizes your stand up)?

When you do put what you do in a MMA environment, you will find that it will force you to greatly adapt your game.



MMA isn't a "style" or an "art" -- it is a ruleset, an environment. Fighters who compete in MMA, or just practice it for fun, do what works, whatever works. If you show them something that works better, they'll steal it. There is a reason that you see the same things in all MMA fights -- those are the things that have proved to work consistently, and so people adopt them.

If I put you in a MMA environment for 6 months and had you spar regularly, you'd start doing those things that work and stop doing those things that don't (since you'd keep getting killed doing those things).

When you don't go through that process, it is easy to fantasize about what you would or could do.

This is my point. It is a ruleset and an environment. In order to compete there everyone has to adopt and adapt. They end up with the same ruleset so they pretty much end up having to use the same fighting techniques and methods as everyone else. I can not and probably never could compete in the ring, as it is with most everyone else. We have exceptional individuals that shine there, and a whole bunch of other people that really want to. A gung fu system is designed to be used in a way as to make you equal to others as best as possible. In the ruleset environment of MMA you also have to be extremely fit in order to compete with any real expectations. Just look at the top fighters in MMA today. Would you have any prayer of a chance in beating any one of them? No. Most of us wouldn't. Some of them got caught shooting steriods to make them stronger. This is the key with MMA. Learning and skill are following far behind physical training and strength training. In order to get a fellow into an arm bar, kemora? You have to be stronger than he is in order to force the arm into position and hold it. And if you are not strong enough it won't happen, or he just might force his arm out of it. Just look at all the top guys. They are all well above average in what they do. Everyone else is just wishing. You can not reasonably expect any none sport fighting system to be able to do anything in such an environment.

[Knifefighter]

This is my point. It is a ruleset and an environment. In order to compete there everyone has to adopt and adapt. They end up with the same ruleset so they pretty much end up having to use the same fighting techniques and methods as everyone else. I can not and probably never could compete in the ring, as it is with most everyone else. We have exceptional individuals that shine there, and a whole bunch of other people that really want to. A gung fu system is designed to be used in a way as to make you equal to others as best as possible. In the ruleset environment of MMA you also have to be extremely fit in order to compete with any real expectations. Just look at the top fighters in MMA today. Would you have any prayer of a chance in beating any one of them? No. Most of us wouldn't. Some of them got caught shooting steriods to make them stronger. This is the key with MMA. Learning and skill are following far behind physical training and strength training. In order to get a fellow into an arm bar, kemora? You have to be stronger than he is in order to force the arm into position and hold it. And if you are not strong enough it won't happen, or he just might force his arm out of it. Just look at all the top guys. They are all well above average in what they do. Everyone else is just wishing. You can not reasonably expect any none sport fighting system to be able to do anything in such an environment.

WOW!!! Talk about clueless.

[Frost]

This is my point. It is a ruleset and an environment. In order to compete there everyone has to adopt and adapt. They end up with the same ruleset so they pretty much end up having to use the same fighting techniques and methods as everyone else. I can not and probably never could compete in the ring, as it is with most everyone else. We have exceptional individuals that shine there, and a whole bunch of other people that really want to. A gung fu system is designed to be used in a way as to make you equal to others as best as possible. In the ruleset environment of MMA you also have to be extremely fit in order to compete with any real expectations. Just look at the top fighters in MMA today. Would you have any prayer of a chance in beating any one of them? No. Most of us wouldn't. Some of them got caught shooting steriods to make them stronger. This is the key with MMA. Learning and skill are following far behind physical training and strength training. In order to get a fellow into an arm bar, kemora? You have to be stronger than he is in order to force the arm into position and hold it. And if you are not strong enough it won't happen, or he just might force his arm out of it. Just look at all the top guys. They are all well above average in what they do. Everyone else is just wishing. You can not reasonably expect any none sport fighting system to be able to do anything in such an environment.

My lord do you really believe all this, you need to think through your sentences before posting them this is wrong on so many levels it’s not even funny

[Knifefighter]

So, which one was doing Wing Chun? I couldn't tell. T is right, the only way to see if what you do works is to fight, but not in a MMA atmosphere. Everything turns into Muay Thai in a MMA situation. I get a kick out of watching the MMA fights on TV where they introduce the fighters as some sort of Martial Arts belt holder, but you never see it in the fights. You would expect to see some of each fighters trained skills, but for some reason all we see is the same thing with both fighters. Just like this video clip. It just looks like 2 amature MMA fighters doing boxing and slap kicking.
If you are going to prove anything you are going to have to get away from this MMA thing and come up with a way to have full contact fights without all the rules and equipment. You are going to have to stop training MMA and training whatever skill set you have. If you train MMA fighting like everyone else does you will end up fighting the MMA way.

When WC works successfully (at least against someone who is skilled, conditioned, and knows something about striking, groundfighting, and takedowns), it will look pretty much like you saw in the clip. Changing the rules and getting rid of the equipment will not change anything at all. The old no-rules vale tudo fights pretty much showed that fighting looks pretty much the same when it is trained multi-discipline fighter vs. trained multi-discipline fighter.

Theoretical, fantasy, non-fighters who have never gone full contact against another person with multi-discipline skills will probably never understand this, however.

[Frost]

When WC works successfully (at least against someone who is skilled, conditioned, and knows something about striking, groundfighting, and takedowns), it will look pretty much like you saw in the clip. Changing the rules and getting rid of the equipment will not change anything at all. The old no-rules vale tudo fights pretty much showed that fighting looks pretty much the same when it is trained multi-discipline fighter vs. trained multi-discipline fighter.

Theoretical, fantasy, non-fighters who have never gone full contact against another person with multi-discipline skills will probably never understand this, however.

true very true i remember the old no rules days and the fights looked exactly like they do today, only much wilder and less skilled

[HumbleWCGuy]

This is what Wing Chun looks like when it is trained and fought full contact in an MMA environment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gR3beL5CWo

A good example of how WC should be used against another trained multi-discipline fighter.

That video has been posted a few times. The winner is certainly a decent fighter but it is difficult to say that he was showing how to bring WC to the cage considering that there was no vertical fist, the crosses were all overhands, and he had a preference for taking his opponent down in spite of the fact that he had teh upright battle in hand.

I think that if one is going to show himself to be a WC man, he needs to go out and start throwing tight crisp vertical fists. Obviously, one should make adjustments as a fight wears one, but I can't say that this fellow represented WC in this instance even if it is his base art.